WINDOWS 10 AND NVIDIA GRAPHICS CARD PROBLEMS

[Big_Dave]

@Freebird1

The old adage is wrong in the eyes of many.

The manufacturers (Microsoft, HP, CISCO, IBM, Intel, MSI, NVIDIA, ASUS, EVGA, Dell, Panasonic, Toshbia, Cyberlink, Oracle, etc.) spend billions each year producing BIOS, firmware and software updates to this end. If it didn't make business sense then they wouldn't do it. I have found through many years of experience that the cost of rediscovery was much more than the cost and the risk to apply the updates. An experienced HPer once said that the exposure to a bad update was less than 1%.

Only you can decide which "camp" you want to be in. Personally, I am proactive rather than reactive.

[Freebird1]

OK, so I have managed to fix the Potential Windows Update Database error by following this guys advice = option two using command prompt.  What this does is to somehow enable version 1607 (The version that was corrupted) to download first, presumably to repair the corrupt files and it seemed to fix the problem after restarting. = Update Database error gone.

https://www.kapilarya.com/potential-windows-update-database-error-in-windows-10

I then tried to download 1709 but it failed again, but for very different reasons.  It came back with error 0x80070020 and research highlighted that it could be my av stopping it so I researched further.  have verified that 1709 is a problem and it is apparently associated with this “speculative execution side-channel attacks”

Unless your av has a specific registry key it won't allow any updates.  I'm updating now having removed avast, malwarebyes and every other security software I have temporarily and enabled defender, which surprise surprise, apparently has this registry key 1709 requires befor it will update.  I went to avast first and though they claim their latest update compies, other users are saying it doesn't & of course 1709 won't update so it's not compatible with that version of Win 10 apparently.  

Here's an article: http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-no-more-windows-patches-at-all-if-your-av-clashes-with-our-me...

"Microsoft won't let you install future security updates until your antivirus vendor sets a specific registry key that certifies compatibility with Windows.

As part of this week's security updates for the Meltdown and Spectre CPU attacks, Microsoft required that all third-party antivirus vendors confirm compatibility with its CPU fixes and then to set a registry key in their products to certify compatibility. Without the key being set, Microsoft's security update simply won't install.

Microsoft has now clarified that this new rule will apply to all future security updates and means users running non-conforming third-party antivirus won't be protected by Microsoft's future patches.

"Customers will not receive the January 2018 security updates (or any subsequent security updates) and will not be protected from security vulnerabilities unless their antivirus software vendor sets the following registry key"

At this point I'm in the middle of trying to update 1709 having enabled only defender and if that works, then it's safe to say that this registry key requirement is the reason people are having such trouble downloading this version of Win 10.  Stand by, will let you know if I win or hit the mat for the umpteenth time.

[Freebird1]

When I say if it aint' broke don't fix it, I'm referring to the fact that the other two pc's are currently working and are enabling me to research solutions.  I haven't actually taken a look at the bios versions on ether of those or Win 10 versions as I'm too busy trying to fix the p6-2416.  No doubt when I take a look at whether 1709 has updated on those I'm going to find the same problem, but at least now I seem to have discovered what it is that keeps making 1709 fail  on the computer I'm currently wrestling with. 

So, while my main pc is cactus, the old addage remains relevant for the other two working pc's..if they ain't broke right now, I'm not fixing them as then I won't have any working pc's.   MDKlassen nailed it...If it ain't broke I'm not trying hard enough.   If I manage to successfully download 1709 on the P6-2416a without it failing, then I can safely assume that it was associated with this attack issue and the missing registry key that avast hasn't updated or isn't being recognised.

I still have to update the bios and find a way to get this pc to recognise my nvidia graphics card.  Apparently updating the Bios is supposed to help that.  Currently I have nothing in bios that allows me to switch between onboard or integrated.  I'm hoping the 8.20 bios update fixes that.   1709 is stil ldownloading right now and if it works = Eureka, if not....it's back to hurling expletives at it.  Maybe if I swear at it loud enough it'll fix itself?....lol

[Freebird1]

@ mdklassen

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@mdklassen wrote:

Of course, if you have a "spare" disk-drive, install Windows 8 onto it, and then update the BIOS.

Hint: before starting to install, disconnect the computer from the Internet, so that it does not waste your time running Windows Update.

HUH???  How do I do that?  I have stand alone (western digital) drives but not one I can physically replace into my pc. How would that work anyway?  Would I have to install another drive, load win 8 onto it, update the bios and then put the other drive back in? (assuming that win 10 is stored on the original drive?)  I'm not as savvy as that, i.e.not sure how to do that kinda magic but if all else fails I'll try it.  Big Dave reckons I can update the bios without downgrading back to win 8 so I might try that first with fingers crossed but not until I get this 1709 issue out of the way...stand by, might have to pick your brain about how to do that if all else fails.

> Truth be told the downoaded version of Win 10 was not great and I reloaded it with a disc copy that a techie friend

> gave me, so how a OS version can be specific to each machine is a tad illogical.

That makes no sense -- how can "his" download be any different than "your" download, unless his download is '1703', while yours is '1709'.

The initial Win 10 copy on the P6-2416 was downloaded from the internet via Windows 10 upgrade notification but it wasn't stable & kept crashing.  This tech friend had a hard copy of Win 10 that wasn't downloaded from the internet and he advised me that it would be better to use that as it's more stable.  He used it to reinstall Win 10 on customer pc's when they too had problems with stability.  This was when it first became available.   I followed his advice and it fixed all the problems I'd had with the initial downloaded copy.  What doesn't make sense is that HP tech telling me that he had to send me a copy of win 8 that was specific to my actual pc serial number.  Still scratching my head over that but grateful he's willing to send a copy anyway just in case.

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[mdklassen]

>  I then tried to download 1709 but it failed again, but for very different reasons. 

> It came back with error 0x80070020 and research highlighted that it could be my av stopping it so I researched further. 

> have verified that 1709 is a problem and it is apparently associated with this “speculative execution side-channel attacks”.

I disagree, specifically about the "chronology" of the software updates.

That '1709' release of Windows 10 was "frozen" in September 2017, while the information about 'Meltdown' and 'Spectre' was revealed a few months later, in December 2017.

MIcrosoft issued one update for Meltdown/Spectre on January 3, 2018, and then it was discovered that updated computers were having problems.  Microsoft removed that update from their Windows Update file-servers.

HP "pulled" the BIOS update from their HP Support servers.

What AV software are you running?

Can you temporarily uninstall it, which will reactivate the built-in Windows Defender anti-virus, which has been "dormant" because your AV software was active.

Repeat the download of '1709', and then reinstall your AV software.

[mdklassen]

> Currently I have nothing in BIOS that allows me to switch between onboard or integrated. 

> I'm hoping the 8.20 BIOS update fixes that.

I predict less than a 0.0001% probability of fulfilling your hope -- it is the motherboard that detects the presence of a "plug-and-play" add-in graphics adapter, and then disables the "onboard" graphics.

Adding such a "switch" would be a "philosophical" change on the current policy: "add-in-always-supercedes-integrated".

Also, if this "switch" capability was added, then what would be the "default" value: internal versus add-in ?

If it were set to internal, then all the customers currently using an add-in adapter would be puzzled by a "black-screen", because their video-cable is connected to the "add-in", which won't get any signal after the BIOS-update is applied.

If it were set to "add-in-if-present", that would be exactly like the current "add-in-supercedes-integrated".

P.S. See: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

Access this web-site from either of your "working" computers, and create the "Windows Installer" media (on USB or on DVD-recordable) for "Fall Creators Update to Windows 10 - 1709", rather than trying to use Windows Update on the problematic computer.

[mdklassen]

> How do I do that?  I have stand alone (western digital) drives but not one I can physically replace into my pc.

> How would that work anyway? 

> Would I have to install another drive, load win 8 onto it, update the bios and then put the other drive back in?

>  (assuming that win 10 is stored on the original drive?) 

Most "external" disk-drives have an "internal" disk-drive inside the casing.

So, if you wanted to "cannibalize" that disk, you could "peel" the case away -- for some cases, it will NEVER be possible to "put Humpty Dumpty together again".

Find a local owner/operator computer-store with a "pre-owned" disk-drive, say 200 GB for $20 US.

Install Windows onto it -- it only needs to work for one day (install Windows, update the BIOS).

Then, the original disk-drive, with Windows 10, can be reconnected.

This is what that HP technician recommended -- "long-winded", but it will work.

> What doesn't make sense is that HP tech telling me that he had to send me a copy of win 8 that was specific to my actual pc serial number. 

He probably ONLY needed the model-number, not the serial-number, to ensure that he sent you the CORRECT "System Recovery" package.  Or, maybe, your conversation with him has recorded your serial-number in his database, to facilitate the "next" interaction you make with him.

> Still scratching my head over that, but grateful he's willing to send a copy anyway, just in case.

There is nothing wrong with a "free lunch" (Heinlein excluded). 

[Freebird1]

I'll read and repy to your responses a bit later....in the past few days I have been having no end of trouble after trying to update once again and failing miserably.  Now my integrated graphics is gone too.  Can't win.  Here's what's happened now.  You'll recall that after trying to update initially, my nvidia card went missing and wouldn't work so I connected to the integrated graphics and got it going.  Thought I'd fixed it, but was still running 1607.  Managed to get that up to date and then tried to load 1709 via usb without updates as this kept failing.  Unfortunately that failed too and it tried to reload the previous version but failed, and I got an error message as follows:

0xC1900101 - 0x30018 Failed in FIRST_BOOT with error during SYSPREP operation. It seemed to have gone to sleep after that and wouldn't open back up.

I Powered off. Turned it on again and got an error message "No boot disc has been detected or the disk has failed" = SHOOT ME NOW. I figured it was probably sotware related, not hard drive related as I'd had plenty of upgrade and boot errors prior to that. Powered off and back on again = nothing, not a post beep, no signal to monitor = back to square one

I've taken out the ram and restarted and it beeps so hopefully that means the mobo is alright.  I'm beat.  I've posted this same issue on tomshardware asking if anyone else knows of how to fix this issue.  I can't believe that two graphics card and a hdd have died in the space of a week. 

What I am pleased about is that I rang HP and asked them whether I should roll it back, update the bios and then try the win 10 1709 update again and they sent me out a set of recovery disks free of charge.  I've owned several HP's so I appreciated the fact that they were willing to help out in that way.  They arrived today, but alas, can't get a signal to monitor, just as it was last week.  On the tomshardware forum one member noted the following advice from microsot re  the error code I got when it failed last time i.e. :

0xC1900101 - 0x30018 Failed in FIRST_BOOT with error during SYSPREP operation

Cause Installation failed during the FIRST_BOOT phase while attempting the MIGRATE_DATA operation. This can occur due to a problem with a display driver.

And this is what Microsoft suggest to fix the error: Disconnect all peripheral devices that are connected to the system, except for the mouse, keyboard and display. Update or uninstall the display driver.

Problem is, you can't follow their advice if there's no signal to monitor.  Can't even get bios to load and I"m suspecting that both gpu's have been affected the same way.  The only common denominator is that 1709 update

[Freebird1]

Microsofts advice wouldn't have worked anyway as I tried to reload the driver for the nvidia card but it wouldn't complete because it couldn't find the card.  I initially thought it was a dead gpu but I'm doubting that now.  I think when I got that last error message it was referring to the integrated graphics card having driver problems and that's two for two  Any suggestions?

[Freebird1]

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@mdklassen wrote:

> Currently I have nothing in BIOS that allows me to switch between onboard or integrated. 

> I'm hoping the 8.20 BIOS update fixes that.

I predict less than a 0.0001% probability of fulfilling your hope -- it is the motherboard that detects the presence of a "plug-and-play" add-in graphics adapter, and then disables the "onboard" graphics.

Adding such a "switch" would be a "philosophical" change on the current policy: "add-in-always-supercedes-integrated".

Also, if this "switch" capability was added, then what would be the "default" value: internal versus add-in ?

If it were set to internal, then all the customers currently using an add-in adapter would be puzzled by a "black-screen", because their video-cable is connected to the "add-in", which won't get any signal after the BIOS-update is applied.

If it were set to "add-in-if-present", that would be exactly like the current "add-in-supercedes-integrated".

I didn't know it was plug and play and was wondering how to install a new graphics card if you haven't got a display to begin with.   That's helpful in terms of trying out another gpu, but I'm getting worried it'll fry that too.  I have an older rdeon in my other pc that has the same specs in terms of being a pcie but it's a 250w not a 300w and it's radeon.  Didn't know if the differnt power requirements would be a problem.  The thing is that even after I got it working on the inegrated card it didn't find the nvidia via plug and play even after I"d removed all the older drivers and software.  It was as if it was fried, but I'm starting to doubt that.  BTW, quite curiosly I checked what version of windows was running on my other hp and lappie and guess what?....version 1709 without a hiccup  Go figure.  They're older & it downloaded fine on those. 

P.S. See: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

Access this web-site from either of your "working" computers, and create the "Windows Installer" media (on USB or on DVD-recordable) for "Fall Creators Update to Windows 10 - 1709", rather than trying to use Windows Update on the problematic computer.

 Did that and it froze at 45% just as it did when I tried to update via the net.  I updated it without allowing it to update as I took out the ethernet cable before starting in the hope if would repair the win 10 OS that is seemingly corrupted.   Unfortunatey however, when it tried to revert to 1607, that failed too because of a driver issue with the integrated graphics.  See above, the error message apparently refers to drivers being missing and that's two graphics cards so far.  I don't think either are fried, I think the update keeps corrupting the drivers or something like that.  This is all trial and error for me.  I'm not an expert so some things don't naturaly occur to me such as plug and play being available rather than switching between graphics cards in BIOS.  I really do appreciate all the help you guys have been giving.  Cheers for that

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