WINDOWS 10 AND NVIDIA GRAPHICS CARD PROBLEMS

[Freebird1]

I have two problems so I'll detail them one at a time.

1)  My sister gave me her p6-2416a after updating to a new computer.  She had installed Windows 10 on it without updating the BIOS or any other drivers as recommended by HP before updating to Win 10.  I noticed the BIOS is the original version and there are two updates since then.  However, I read that HP BIOS is specific to the operating system that came with the computer so haven't wanted to update BIOS in case it crashes everything.

QUESTION:  Do I have to reload Windows 8 so that I can update the BIOS with the last two version Updates? Or Will it be ok to update the BIOS with Windows 10 as the operating system  The Specs for this model state that it came with windows 8 so Im assuming that's what I'd need to reintall.

2) Recently Windows 10 updated and when I opened my PC the next day, the Nvidia graphics card was not working.  It's a Geforce GT630.  All I got was a blue screen.  I connected the monitor to the integrated graphics = AMD so I could get a monitor working but have tried everything since and can't get the Nvidia card to work.  I went to device manager and found the Nvidia GPU listed under hidden devices, followed some online advice and uninstalled the drivers and all Nvidia software, and it completely disappared altogether from device manager.  I tried to load Nvidia latest drivers, but it said there was no device to be found and wouldn't continue.  Many people seem to be having this problem and several suggest updating the BIOS.  As above however, I can't do that if it's OS specific as it will cause even more problems. 

I hope someone can help....this version of Windows is doing my head in.  I've read so much at this stage re: what it might be and how to fix it, my brain is turning to mush.

[Big_Dave]

Hi,

You don't have to install Windows 8 to apply the Windows 8 posted BIOS update when running Windows 10. 

Leave the NVIDA card out if that's causing instability issues then update the BIOS.

[Freebird1]

Morning all, can anybody help me out with this issue ? or would I be better off calling HP Australia? Figured they may not help as PC is past warranty period.  Any help would be much appreciated.

[Freebird1]

Hi Big Dave, Thanks, I posted my second message while you were replying so didn't know anybody had responded before posting.   I've read a few nightmare stories about updating the bios and didn't want to brick my system.  I may need some help along the way.   I just went to the HP site to take a look at the downloads and drivers and see which BIOS updates were available and for some odd reason it isn't giving me anything this morning.  I just keep getting this messgae no matter what operating system I choose.

"We were unable to retrieve the list of drivers for your product.  Please select the desired operating system and select “Update” to try again." 

Am using asus lappie right now & I'll try again on the HP once I finish doing a system scan.  Windows update just failed again & troubleshooter found  "potential Windows Update Database error detected"  Just running system scan to see if I can fix that first..  Sigh.

I did write down my BIOS verson yesterday  from the actual BIOS on my PC =it's JAS_818.rom V8.18  and there were two other updates since that on the HP website when I managed to get it to open.  I've never updated a BIOS, so once I do get into the drivers page, I may need a bit of help understanding how that's done. 

Here is the product info link for my PC.  It says it shipped with Win 8.

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-pavilion-p6-2400-desktop-pc-series/5330783/model/5337177/doc...

[Freebird1]

Hi Dave, on another thread a member has said that you can't update BIOS for earlier OS's while running win 10.  HP put out an instruction sheet via hp support assistant referring to my particular model and advise on updating BIOS before upgrading to win 10.  With all the confusion I actually rang HP Australia and got through to someone OS and asked the same questions. 

He basically said that I couldn't update the BIOS while running windows 10 because the system shipped initialy with Windows 8 and the updates are designed for that OS.  He confirmed that I"d need to reload Win 8 but that it needed to be the version that was originally on this PC specifically, and asked if I"d made a recovery disc before updating...nup.  He offered to sell me one, but I objected to having to pay for it, so as a good will gesture HP are apparently sending me out a Win 8 recovery disc (not sure if that' what it's actualy called) so I can reload Win 8 update everything and then reload win 10 if I want to. Seems crazy that they just don't make recovery software available online = has to be much easier on everyone.

He warned however that the sytem wasn't designed for Win 10 so it might no work.  Notwithstanding the fact that it's already been working on Win 10 for a couple of years now and it's only this latest Win 10 update that has caused all these problems ie. graphics card disappearing, blue screen, win update issues etc.  apparently HP are aware that version 1709 is causing havoc with HP systems.

[Big_Dave]

Hi,

Please reread what I posted about installing a version W8 BIOS when you are running Windows 10.

Any other advice as the Brits would say is 'Poppycock".

[mdklassen]

> on another thread a member has said that you can't update BIOS for earlier OS's while running win 10. 

I sent a PM ("private message") to that person, and his reply is that the BIOS-updating software was produced for running under Windows 8, and that Windows 10 will refuse to run that "unsigned" software.  I do not have hardware that matches yours, so I cannot run an "experiment" to test this "you can't update BIOS" hypothesis.

> He basically said that I couldn't update the BIOS while running windows 10

> because the system shipped initially with Windows 8 and the updates are designed for that OS. 

I disagree with his statement. BIOS updates update the BIOS on the motherboard.

I think that it is extremely rare that Windows will require a specific BIOS update as a prerequisite to install/run Windows.  I think that MIcrosoft's software developers will avoid writing any code that relies on a specific feature that is inherent in a specific BIOS.

I have read the HP documents for the '8.19' and '8.20' BIOS updates. 

Here's my excerpt, below.

I could not find any other details about what '8.19' is targeted to "fix".

Note that the details  for '8.20' contains both "fix" details, and the phrase "supercedes all previous".

Both documents were written before Microsoft released Windows 10, and HP has not been updated the documents.

Note that Microsoft's definition of "a supported operating system" includes Windows 7 & 8 & 10.

=======================================================
http://whp-hou4.cold.extweb.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp67001-67500/sp67068.html

TITLE: HP Consumer and Small Business Desktop PC BIOS Update (ROM Family 2AE0)

VERSION: 8.19 Rev. A
DESCRIPTION: This package contains a utility to update the System BIOS (ROM) for the supported models running a supported operating system.

PURPOSE: Critical
SOFTPAQ FILE NAME: sp67068.exe
PRODUCT TYPE(S): Desktops

HARDWARE PRODUCT MODEL(S): 

(( SNIP a long list of other models ))
HP Pro 3515 Microtower PC

=======================================================
http://whp-hou4.cold.extweb.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp69501-70000/sp69877.html

TITLE: HP Consumer Desktop PC BIOS Update (ROM Family SSID 2AE0)

VERSION: 8.20 REV: A PASS: 1
DESCRIPTION:
This package provides an update to the HP Consumer Desktop PC BIOS (ROM Family SSID 2AE0) supported models running a supported operating system

PURPOSE: Critical
SOFTPAQ FILE NAME: SP69877.exe
SUPERSEDES: None ---------------------------------------------- (really ?????? see below -- MDKLASSEN)
EFFECTIVE DATE: November 27, 2014

PRODUCT TYPE(S): Desktops

HARDWARE PRODUCT MODEL(S):  HP Pro 3515 Series MT PC

Fixes: Improved security of UEFI code and variables.
HP strongly recommends promptly transitioning to this updated BIOS version which supersedes all previous releases.

NOTE: Due to security changes, after this BIOS update is installed, previous versions cannot be reinstalled.

=======================================================

My thought is that your model was in "production" for several years.

I presume that the first models were assembled with the "initial" release of the BIOS.

My guess is that at some date, the '8.19' BIOS update was produced, released, and, more importantly, included in the motherboard for all units assembled and shipped after that date.

Thus, the "early" production was shipped with '8.17' or '8.18', while "later" production was shipped with '8.19' or '8.20'.

HP has stated that all models produced after March 2013 have been tested with Windows 10.

Presumably, HP did the testing in 2013, with some "old" version of the BIOS.

My guess is that HP did not discover a need to "force" the computer-owner to upgrade the BIOS, before installing Windows 10.

The fact that Microsoft offered the free GWX ("Get Windows 10") update for a year, ending on July 31, 2016, and my assumption that many computers of your model successfully upgraded, without incident, implies that Windows 10 will run on any BIOS ("original" or '8.18' or '8.19' or '8.20').

Summary: HP recommends, for "security" reasons, that you upgrade to the '8.20' BIOS, no matter if you are running Linux or Windows 7/8/10.

[Big_Dave]

HP has stated that BIOS updates released under Windows 8 will execute and install under Windows 10. 

However, there are some BIOS updates released under VISTA and Windows 7 where the installer will not execute under W8 or W10. Even though there are other other methods of getting the BIOS update in installed in these cases, updating the BIOS under W7 with these types of installers is the safest.

Q.E.D.

[Freebird1]

Thanks Guys, I was a bit skeptical about this HP guys advice which is why I didn't let it go at that.  That 8.20 update is the one I was wanting to update to because of the critical nature of the update but with everything that's going on just trying to update 1709, including the complete absence of my nvidia graphics card I thought I best try to fix that first. i.e. the 'Potential Win Update Database error detected'.  When I get that sorted out I'm going to update the bios.  Just wondering though is there something I shoud do before hand so if it all goes awry I can reverse it?  As I've said, have never updaed a bios before but it looks like the download does it all anyway.  This guy at HP didn't seem sure about much and couldn't tell me anything about the graphics card issue or database error other than the fact that they were aware 1709 was causing hassles.   What I found weird is that he insisted that if I downgraded to win 8 it had to be specific to my actual machine which is why he's sending out a disc, that obviously I won't be using at this stage unless all else fails.  Seemed strange given that Win 10 was offered without any such specificity other than a license key on the machine it was loading to.  Truth be told the downoaded version of Win 10 was not great and I reloaded it with a disc copy that a techie friend gave me, so how a OS version can be specific to each machine is a tad illogical.

As for Win 7 machines, my other HP came with win 7 as did my laptop and both are working on Win 10.  I haven't considered updating the bios with those as both are working fine so far, so it's the old addage, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  The P6 2416 however, is all over the shop.  Once I sort ou the other issues with win 10 update I'd appreciate it if you guys could walk me through the bios update.  At least then we'll know for sure that it can be done. 

[mdklassen]

> the 'Potential Win Update Database error detected'. 

Access the 'C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\DataStore' folder.

to see a file like:      1,208,025,088 bytes --- DataStore.edb

That is the "database".

Stop the Windows Update service, and change its startup to "Manual".

Reboot.

Rename the above file.

Start the Windows Update service, and change its startup back to "Automatic".

Launch Windows Update.

> When I get that sorted out I'm going to update the bios. 

> Just wondering though is there something I shoud do before hand so if it all goes awry I can reverse it? 

The BIOS-update utility should offer to make a backup of the current BIOS, into the "System Recovery" partition.

> they were aware 1709 was causing hassles.  

Without specific details, it's impossible to agree/disagree.

> What I found weird is that he insisted that if I downgraded to win 8 it had to be specific to my actual machine

> which is why he's sending out a disc, that obviously I won't be using at this stage unless all else fails. 

Of course, if you have a "spare" disk-drive, install Windows 8 onto it, and then update the BIOS.

Hint: before starting to install, disconnect the computer from the Internet, so that it does not waste your time running Windows Update.

> Truth be told the downoaded version of Win 10 was not great and I reloaded it with a disc copy that a techie friend

> gave me, so how a OS version can be specific to each machine is a tad illogical.

That makes no sense -- how can "his" download be any different than "your" download, unless his download is '1703', while yours is '1709'.

> I haven't considered updating the bios with those as both are working fine so far, so it's the old addage, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

If it ain't broke, you're not trying hard enough.