Hard drive dead or other problem?

[mc2nd]

Hi,

The hard drive on my (well out of warranty) G6 appears to have died, but before I rush out and buy a replacement I'd like to check that it is (just) the drive itself that's the problem.  Symptoms:

Running either hard disk test quickly gets me: SMART Check Passed, Short DST Failed, Failure ID 9AP399-6BD911-MFPX0K-60TE03, Product ID: C6M11EA#ABU

The thing that makes me wonder if it's (just) a drive problem is that I have multiple recovery devices -- a 1GB "short" Windows 10 Recovery USB, a 32GB "full" Windows 10 Recovery USB, a 32GB HP Recovery USB and a Macrium Reflect Recovery CD -- and was expecting to be able to boot from those and run CHKDSK, etc, but on trying to boot from any of them I just get the HP logo and infinite (well, over 15 minutes of) spinning dots, and nothing else (no error messages, etc).  The same happens if I try a normal boot.

However, if I remove the hard drive from the laptop then the recovery devices boot up fine.  Also, I notice that without the hard drive in I get a much more basic System Diagnostics interface (more DOS like and without touchpad support).  So I figure the (slightly!) more graphical interface must come off of the hard drive when it's in.

So, all of that makes me wonder if it's just the hard drive that's the problem, and would be very grateful if someone in the know could look up the Failure ID (why aren't those published on HP's site?) and let me know.

Assuming it is just the drive, I was planing on replacing the 1TB one in there, which I only use around a tenth of, with a 240GB SSD, probably a PNY CS900 or an Integral V, 'cos of local availability.  Are there any compatability issues, or will just about any SSD work fine with the G6?  I have a recent full+differential Macrium Reflect backup on a NAS drive that I will be restoring to it.

[IT_WinSec · Accepted solution]

Hi,

Welcome to the HP Support forum. Thank you for posting and for the detailed description of the problem - this is much appreciated! Most users don't write long descriptions and don't realize how important details are . Thank you very much !

It's just the HDD. The code you provided I checked in the HP system and it's just the HDD.

Also, what you experience is normal because the PC could not boot from the removable media due to BIOS configuration and due to the operating system. No HDD = no operating system = no HDD to mess, it boots fine.

With regards to the more basic BIOS (more DOS like), this is also OK. The basic BIOS diagnostics is part of the BIOS and is stored on the motherboard chip. The extended more newer/advanced BIOS is actually UEFI/extension and is stored on the HDD. Therefore, once you remove the HDD, you only have the basic part. Here are details >> https://www.howtogeek.com/56958/htg-explains-how-uefi-will-replace-the-bios/

Replace the HDD.

If you plan to use HP Recovery media, you need HDD with the very same size as the current one or bigger (smaller will not work) - e.g. if your current HDD is with 500 GB capacity, your new HDD/SDD must also be 500 GB or with bigger capacity (1TB, 2 TB, etc) .  I recommend you consider HDDs with RPM 7200 as they as slightly faster, 5400 RPM is slower >> https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/r/rpm.htm

If you don't use HP Recovery media, this will not be a problem but you might have issues with Windows activation due to the HDD change (depending on Windows settings/configuration specifics).

Hope this helps !

[mc2nd]

Many thanks for the speedy reply.

A couple of things I don't quite get though...in regards to being unable to boot from removable media you say what you experience is normal because the PC could not boot from the removable media due to BIOS configuration and due to the operating system. No HDD = no operating system = no HDD to mess, it boots fine.

That seems a bit strange to me.  To be clear, when I tried to boot from the various removable media recovery devices I did so by selecting them using the F9 Boot Device Options menu, and I'd have thought doing so wouldn't have needed or even looked at the HDD -- and clearly they don't need the HDD as they come up fine when the HDD is removed.

But if one has to have either a fully working HDD in or no HDD at all in order to boot from removable media, then how could you use removable media to diagnose and (possibly) fixup an HDD?  That doesn't quite make sense.

Also, you confirm what I thought, that the newer/advanced BIOS is actually UEFI/extension and is stored on the HDD, and as that's coming up (when the HDD is inn) that must mean that the HDD isn't totally dead.  So I'm wondering, what does the failure code I'm getting actually indicate?

[IT_WinSec]

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@mc2nd wrote:

Many thanks for the speedy reply.

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You are very welcome.

I will clarify.

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@mc2nd wrote:

in regards to being unable to boot from removable media you say what you experience is normal because the PC could not boot from the removable media due to BIOS configuration and due to the operating system. No HDD = no operating system = no HDD to mess, it boots fine.

That seems a bit strange to me.  To be clear, when I tried to boot from the various removable media recovery devices I did so by selecting them using the F9 Boot Device Options menu, and I'd have thought doing so wouldn't have needed or even looked at the HDD -- and clearly they don't need the HDD as they come up fine when the HDD is removed.

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Computers with WIndows 8 / 8.1 and 10 like your Pavillion G6-2219SA, have >Secure Boot< option in the BIOS.

Windows 8/8.1/10 have also an option known as >Fast boot<

As written in the links, Fast boot and Secure Boot could prevent your computer from starting from some CDs/DVDs/USBs. You might have to disable Secure Boot and Fast boot in order to use hardware (such as older video cards) that Secure Boot does not recognize, or to boot from a media that is not recognized for whatever reason.

By default Windows goes to the HDD. In order to avoid this, Secure Boot should be OFF and if Windows cannot start -> hard restart of the PC may be needed to completely shut Windows down, sometimes even the batter may need to be removed.

This is how Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 works (unforunately). Well, I am not in front of your PC, I don't know if Secure Boot was ON and if Fast Start up was on, but they are ON by default and by design in most users , and what I write are just speculations about them, my suspicious. But from what you described initially, it makes sense.

When there was no HDD, the PC could not boot from any HDD and there was no Windows inside. This is how it works, Microsoft designed it this way >> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/oem-uefi

[ please, don't shoot the messenger ]

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@mc2nd wrote:

Also, you confirm what I thought, that the newer/advanced BIOS is actually UEFI/extension and is stored on the HDD, and as that's coming up (when the HDD is inn) that must mean that the HDD isn't totally dead.  So I'm wondering, what does the failure code I'm getting actually indicate?

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I checked the code in the HP system and it indicates failure of the HDD >> Hard Disk 1 Quick Test Failure

It tells me you performed Quick test.

It also shows me your serial number of the PC

and also shows me that warranty has expired long time ago - Nov, 2013

Such a short number, so much information hidden inside - see how cryptographic services have improved during the years.

HDDs usually don't just die like that, out of nowhere and completely in a single day. Sometimes it takes time for them to go completely off. Throughout the years I have rarely seen an HDD die completely and in a totally unuable state. Most times, it is not usuable enough for a full work without troubles, but most like inside files could still be accessed (backed up) >> https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/5-signs-hard-drive-lifetime/

Hope this clarifies  🙂

Your update and feedback is important - please, let me know if any issues or questions.

[mc2nd]

Many thanks once again (and no messenger shooting from me 🙂

Re Secure Boot, it is turned on, in fact that screen in the BIOS is identical to the figure Exit Saving Changes under point 7 under Enabling Secure Boot on recent model notebook computers.  It must always have been so as I've never changed it (or any other BIOS setting for that matter, never had a need to).

You say As written in the links, Fast boot and Secure Boot could prevent your computer from starting from some CDs/DVDs/USBs. You might have to disable Secure Boot ... to boot from a media that is not recognized for whatever reason. However, I think there has to be an additional twist to what's described in the secure boot link.

You see, two of the aforementioned recovery media are fairly recent, and I've succesfully booted from them before.  The "full" Windows Recovery USB I created soon after the Win 10 Fall Creators Update and the Macrium Reflect bootable rescue CD was created just three weeks ago, and I (of course!) tested both of them after creation, and they both booted up fine -- and that was with Secure Boot enabled.

So, those removable boot media:

o) work with Secure Boot enabled and a "good" hard drive present

o) work with Secure Boot enabled and no hard drive present

o) don't work with Secure Boot enabled and a "bad" hard drive present and ....

...I've just tried both with Secure Boot disabled and they...

o) don't work with Secure Boot disabled and a "bad" hard drive present.  Same as before, just ends up at infinitely spinning dots.

In one sense it's all academic of course, as I obviously have to replace the drive, but there's clearly an additional twist somewhere that's preventing booting from removable media when a "bad" hard drive is present, which, as I said before, is precisely one of the times you need it!

In regards to HDDs usually don't just die like that, out of nowhere and completely in a single day, yes indeed, that's always been my experience too.  In fact this is the first totally unusable drive I've ever had; before I've always seen symptoms (and errors) building up and managed to replace drives while they were still working.

However, in this case, while of course errors may have been building up unnoticed for a while, the first noticable symptoms of anything going awry was the daily Macrium differential and Paragon incremental backups (yes, I run two backup regimes) both taking overlong and finally failing, and it was while I was starting to investigate that a few hours later the system ground to a halt to never be rebooted since.  Just (bad!) luck of the draw, I guess 😞

[mc2nd]

Update....

I bought a 240GB SSD to replace the failed 1TB HDD, installed it, booted up my Macrium Reflect Free recovery CD and restored the latest full+differential image backups from my NAS drive to the SSD and ........  Ta daaaah!  The laptop booted up fine, and with no activation issues.  Everything's working fine  

The only thing I'm wondering now is how much of the plethora of recovery media I've built up to keep or give up on and use for something else.

Note: The one thing I didn't restore from the backups was the D recovery partition, as on examination everything in it was from 2012 (when I bought the laptop) and so must be Windows 8, and as the laptop is now on Win 10 there didn't seem any point in using up that extra almost 20GB for it.

Obviously I'll be keeping the recovery CDs for the image backup software, as those, along with my regular backup-to-NAS regime, give the ability for whole-system recovery (as I've just done, indeed).  I've also got:

a) a "short" 1GB Windows 8.1 recovery USB (don't know why I've still got this around!)

b) a "short" 1GB Windows 10 recovery USB

c) a "full" 32GB Windows 10 recovery USB

d) a 32GB HP Recovery USB

Would I be right in assuming that the only one of those that's still useful is (c) the "full" 32GB Windows 10 recovery USB?

Oh, I do also have a Win10Pro recovery DVD that came with my desktop PC.  Am I right in thinking that could be used to repair the laptop too (which is W10 Home), if needed?

[IT_WinSec]

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@mc2nd wrote:

Update....

I bought a 240GB SSD to replace the failed 1TB HDD, installed it, booted up my Macrium Reflect Free recovery CD and restored the latest full+differential image backups from my NAS drive to the SSD and ........  Ta daaaah!  The laptop booted up fine, and with no activation issues.  Everything's working fine

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That' great to read. Thank you for your update and welcome to the SSD world. Personally, I dislike HDDs. After my first SSD several years ago, using an HDD feels like so ancient, slow and noisy 🙂

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@mc2nd wrote:
 

Note: The one thing I didn't restore from the backups was the D recovery partition, as on examination everything in it was from 2012 (when I bought the laptop) and so must be Windows 8, and as the laptop is now on Win 10 there didn't seem any point in using up that extra almost 20GB for it.

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I'd do the same.

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@mc2nd wrote:

Obviously I'll be keeping the recovery CDs for the image backup software, as those, along with my regular backup-to-NAS regime, give the ability for whole-system recovery (as I've just done, indeed).

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I practise the same / similar. I use imaging media (Clonezilla, similar to Macrum) and store images on external media (USB flash drives and USB HDDs). But NAS is way more professional.

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@mc2nd wrote:

a) a "short" 1GB Windows 8.1 recovery USB (don't know why I've still got this around!)

b) a "short" 1GB Windows 10 recovery USB

c) a "full" 32GB Windows 10 recovery USB

d) a 32GB HP Recovery USB

Would I be right in assuming that the only one of those that's still useful is (c) the "full" 32GB Windows 10 recovery USB?

Oh, I do also have a Win10Pro recovery DVD that came with my desktop PC.  Am I right in thinking that could be used to repair the laptop too (which is W10 Home), if needed?

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(a) and (b) - the 1 GB ones are useless - they can be used only for recovery purpose but you can always download Windows ISO from Microsoft web site for free , or download any other recovery software for free if you need it.

I'd keep (c) and (d) as the useful ones. I am not sure if (d) has Windows 8.1 or 10 on it ?

The Windows 10 Pro Recovery DVD cannot be used to restore and activate Windows 10 Home, if you use Home edition.

The Macrum stategy you use is the best, in my opinion.

Cheers !

[mc2nd]

"I practise the same / similar. I use imaging media (Clonezilla, similar to Macrum) and store images on external media (USB flash drives and USB HDDs). But NAS is way more professional."

LOL!  It's not so much professional but essential for a forgetful (and lazy 🙂 person like me!  If I had to do something to make backups happen (like plug in a USB drive) they wouldn't!    The only way to overcome my shortcomings is to make them totally automatic, and with having both a desktop and a laptop to backup an always-on NAS (along with scehduled tasks) is the way to go....

"I'd keep (c) and (d) as the useful ones. I am not sure if (d) has Windows 8.1 or 10 on it ?"

(d), the HP Recovery USB, was created under 10 but looking at it it has a lot of 2012 files, and as (I thought) it copied the D Recovery partition (?) I'm not sure really what's on it.  Anyway, I thought you said earlier that one couldn't use the HP Recovery USB if one had smaller partitions than at the time it was created (and one less partition too now)?