SSDs > SATA III running with M.2 together? OR is it one or the other?

[reuben_dewberry]

Just got newest model Envy 17 model 17-u220nr aka 17m-bw0013dx to evaluate for major retailer.   1GB 5400 rpm drive is too cotton-pickin' slow, so will upgrade to SSD.  Manual says there is a slot for M.2 drive, but several posts seem to "hint" that this series will EITHER run a SATA III drive OR an M.2 drive, but NOT both at the same time due to bios/motherboard restrictions.  Can someone provide a definitive answer as to whether this model will run BOTH SATA III and M.2 drives at the SAME TIME? (M.2 would be 'boot' and SATA III would be secondary - preferably) >> any other suggestions are also welcome, as I have also considered leaving the 1 GB spinning drive in for files and storage and booting off an M.2 drive for OS and program operating files.  Thanks for reading and taking the time to provide some technical expertise!

[iomare · Accepted solution]

Hi,

They are two different models.

So the 17-u220nr supports M2 SATA3 drive. You can see on page 2 of service manual. (the capacity canm be higher than the drive mentioned in service manual.

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c05282360

So it will accept a M2 SATA3 drive such as the Samsung m2 860 evo. You will need to install the OS on the M2 drive and you can use the 1TB mechanical drive for storage.

The 17m-bw0013dx will accept M2 SATA3 dive or the much faster M2 PCIe NVMe drive as we can see on page 1 of service manual. 

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c06001790

Hope it helps,

David

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[reuben_dewberry]

Wow that was a fast response and I really appreciate you taking the time to help out.  Computer tells me it is 17m-bw0013dx so latest and greatest model.  This has just hit the shelves in stores and with so many derivative models apparently even the big box retailers can't get every little detail spot on such as model numbers.

I haven't cracked it open yet to see exactly what is inside, but this machine is advertised with "optane" and device manager shows Intel Optane+931GBHDD.  Boot time is over a minute so whatever "optane" device is installed for performance is not generating much enthusiasm on my part.  The machine is really laggy compared to other SSD laptops and desktops I am using, so I am wondering what's going on with the enhanced performance that "optane" devices are supposed to provide.  I don't really expect to find an "optane" card in the M.2 slot when I open it up, but can't find any information at all googling the drive - will just have to have a look and see what's there inside the case.

Just starting to do updates on system from HP console, so maybe things will improve after updating... otherwise putting SSD in to replace existing HDD and per your response add a M2 PCIe NVMe in the M.2 slot to really bump things up a couple of notches. 

Any suggestions you might have would be most welcome 🙂

regards,

RDewberry

Macon, GA

[iomare]

Your welcome. Anyway, just want to make a small correction of the above post. Your PC supports only M2 PCIe NVMe drives, not the M2 SATA3 drives. The PCIe drives are much faster. I have a similar PC to yours as my loaner PC from HP  17-ae100 with same CPU/GPU. It has a Hynix PC401 PCIe Nvme SSD in it.

Boot times:

from regular shutdown 11.5s

from forced shutdown (holding power button until shutoff)  24s

I guess the Intel Optane should help, its read and write speeds are lower an I believ it is usually used as a sort of cache disk for the main drive. I think it will be in th M2 port and will need to be removed for the M2 SSD, So take a look before purchasing the new drive.

The optane memory is not mentioned in spec page, service manual and possibly is a unique upgrade for the store.

You will need to reinstall the OS on the SSD by either migrating an image, HP recovery disks or what I like to do is perform a clean install of Windows 10 by downloading media creation tool and creating a bootable drive. So decide which of these is better for you.

Let me know if you need any further help and/or how your upgrades come along.

Here is support page for your PC:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-envy-17m-bw0000-laptop-pc/20283133/model/21910840/product-in...

http://h20574.www2.hp.com/results.htm?SID=1009924102&MEID=C3DA0676-60FA-459F-B633-1E486883AAFF

Hope it helps,

David

[reuben_dewberry]

Again, your prompt response and informed advice is much appreciated.

I didn't want to get too impatient and hastily start swapping out hardware, particularly as I have just started learning about the new 'optane' stuff for only the past 24 hours since the laptop was delivered. 

Anyway, not sure what I did, but after running all updates (including bios) from the HP support page and using a little bit of patience, it seems the performance of the Envy has picked up substantially...

Speccy says I have an Intel Optane+931GBHDD and also mentions "RAID" interface with "software RAID" - whatever all that signifies >> but I gotta figure there is an M.2 Optane card in the M.2 slot - 16 GB would be my best guess.  Both memory slots are occupied with 8 and 4 GB ram, so my best guess is the M.2 slot has the optane chip.  I'm not crazy about popping open the case to look and see, as easier to take apart than put together so if it ain't broke don't fix it seems to apply here.  I swear I cannot find anything about this hard drive googling it... specs on the laptop vary, one saying 5400 rpm and another spec saying 7200 rpm.  Who knows?

Speccy says: Storage/Hard drives:

Intel Optane+931GBHDD
    Manufacturer    Intel
    Serial Number    Optane_000
    Firmware Version Number    15.9
    Interface    RAID
    Capacity    931 GB
    Real size    1,000,202,559,488 bytes
    RAID Type    Software RAID

My original frustration with this spankin' new computer was the laggy performance... over a minute to boot and lags on mouse clicks and opening programs... SMH... running CrystalMark gave me this:

Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   165.888 MB/s
Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   153.741 MB/s

... and etc down the list with crappy read/write speeds across the board.

Now things have improved... boot time is 14 seconds to welcome screen (fingerprint scanner is neat) and then maybe 30 more seconds for the system to fully boot and "settle down" after swiping the scanner... I have buncha little gadgets and stuff that start up with the system, so that prolongs the startup time.  Side-by-side the Envy 'optane' system is pretty much the same snappiness when opening programs and browsing as my i5/SSD desktop system, so what's not to like about that?

CrystalMark now says:

Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   833.010 MB/s
Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   148.386 MB/s
Random Read 4KiB (Q=  8,T= 😎 :   493.894 MB/s [ 120579.6 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q=  8,T= 😎 :   161.844 MB/s [  39512.7 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   232.919 MB/s [  56865.0 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   161.870 MB/s [  39519.0 IOPS]
Random Read 4KiB (Q=  1,T= 1) :    94.201 MB/s [  22998.3 IOPS]
Random Write 4KiB (Q=  1,T= 1) :    61.408 MB/s [  14992.2 IOPS]

The read speeds are about 40% higher than my desktop Samsung 840 PRO system (i5 and 16 GB RAM) and write speeds are lower than the desktop 840 PRO by about 1/2, but until I find that to be some kind of problem, it seems to be good enough for a start.

Bottom line at this point is that I didn't want to start tearing down a new computer system, figuring that HP probably knows a little bit more about how everything works together than I do, particularly with the new optane technology.  With that in mind things seems to have come together for whatever reason and I will work with the system as designed to see how it goes.  Reading about the 'optane' memory, there is the concept that optane learns as it goes, and perhaps performance will continue to improve with use.  Time to try some games on Steam and see how that works out...

I am sure that your idea about popping in an NVMe drive would provide better performance, but if I can get settled in with the optec/1TB drive combination, that would certainly save some cash.  This will be the "mine is bigger than yours" laptop I use at work (school teacher) as I have to maintain my "technology wizard" reputation, but all things considered I can whip out my Asus ROG laptop if I really want to show off a flashy machine, or the Pixelbook to demonstrate portability,  and use the HP Envy for brute force intimidation by size.

Many thanks for helping me to sort this out and avoid making a hasty decision before giving the new system a chance... as always any comments or suggestions you have are most welcome.

regards,

ReubenD

Macon, GA