Spectre Bios F.31 really killing performance

Bjal · ‎11-14-2019

@Anon16 have you tried the new F.34 BIOS (released 18. Oct. 2019) yet?

It claims the following fix:

Fixes an intermittent issue where the thermal manager on thesystem does not function properly, subsequently causing the skintemperature to be higher that expected when the system is run in aheavy loading state.

I have not tried it myself yet, so I do not know if it will actually solve the problem. But I plan to upgrade the BIOS in December.

Banjomx · ‎11-14-2019

F34 is not available for me, but i see F32.

BIOS F.32 Rev.A 21.2 MB 4 October 2019

- Fixes an intermittent issue where CPU performance is limited.

I'll test as soon as possible (will do a full backup before the attempt due to my confidence in HP). As it is now, it is not acceptable, i'll see if they solved...or not.

Anyway HP, how hard is to allow users to manage their fan curve? How hard is to allow BIOS ROLLBACK??? What's the purpose of HP Command Center?

Will post F32 impressions soon.

Anon16 · ‎11-14-2019

@Bjal wrote:
@Anon16 have you tried the new F.34 BIOS (released 18. Oct. 2019) yet?

I don't see that in the list of available BIOS's for my model number.

F32 is still the latest officially listed on the driver site for me.

I've been given an unofficial version (not F34, and not on the support page) directly by HP premium support, but that didn't quite go to plan.

Though I won't elaborate more at this stage, to give them a chance;

I appreciate that they are trying (although this is now taking rather a long time), but as a software engineer myself, I won't hold it against them if there's an occasional unexpected hiccup on the route to a solution .... as long as they respond appropriately (and reasonably timely) to the hiccups....

But I am finding the time between support contacts rather frustrating. It really is taking longer than it really should.

I don't mind trying things out for them, etc, but it really shouldn't be measured in week+ between each contact. If I'm trying unofficial things out for them (which I don't mind), and they're supposedly trying to address the issue, then I'd really expect turnarounds in 1 to 2days at a time, but that's not what's happening.

It was around 14weeks ago that I first raised this performance concern on here....

Back then it was summer here. Now it's almost winter.

Banjomx · ‎11-14-2019

@Anon16

F32 Rev.A is for Spectre X360, F34 is for Spectre i suppose.

As a software developer, i do not blame them for the problem that, obviously, can happen. I blame them for locking out the rollback option, i blame them for the useless HP Support: u got a beta BIOS? Good for you, i got nothing usefull.

Did u try F32?

Menel · ‎11-14-2019

only F.32 Rev.A is available for my laptop version

Anon16 · ‎11-14-2019

@Banjomx wrote:
F34 is not available for me, but i see F32.

BIOS F.32 Rev.A 21.2 MB 4 October 2019
- Fixes an intermittent issue where CPU performance is limited.

I'll test as soon as possible (will do a full backup before the attempt due to my confidence in HP). As it is now, it is not acceptable, i'll see if they solved...or not.

Anyway HP, how hard is to allow users to manage their fan curve? How hard is to allow BIOS ROLLBACK??? What's the purpose of HP Command Center?

Will post F32 impressions soon.

Personally, with the info I have at the minute (including some experience from the ongoing support call), I personally wouldn't install F32 just yet, (if I hadn't already installed it and now seem stuck on it!).

Let's just say an attempt, via HP support, with another (newer, unofficial) BIOS version didn't quite go to plan … in a similar way that reverting to F28 from F32 didn't quite go to plan … let's just say, I'm not now sure that the blocked roll back from F32 was intentional...

I haven't had any comment from HP support yet in response to that hiccup;

Personally, on the information / experience I currently have, I'd wait for further clarity on exactly what's going on with the block that F32 seems to introduce before installing it.

Banjomx · ‎11-14-2019

Thanks for the advice Anon16. F31 is the bios i currently have and blocked the rollback option (as well as killing the fans turning my notebook in a toaster). Not sure what F32 can do worse than this; the machine is not much usable in the current state.

If i understood correctly, you have F32 installed, you can't rollback and neither install the unofficial bios. Is it correct?

If it is, do you confirm the F32 BIOS has not solved the died fan issue?

Anyway, having a clear vision of the problem is hard when support tell me i'm the only one in the world with this problem, F31 work as expected and 98°C cpu (and 65°C internal) for 8 hours a day is within specifications limits.

You are a better source of informations for this problem investigation and i thank you.

Bjal · ‎11-14-2019

F34 is for "HP Spectre 15-df0000 x360 Convertible PC" (and possibly also others).

F32 was released 4.oct, and is what I am currently running.

List of BIOS for this version 15-df:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/hp-spectre-15-df0000-x360-convertible-pc/23238160

Since got F32 at the same time, I would assume that it should not be long until F34 appears on the webpage for your models as well.

@Banjomx wrote:
@Anon16

F32 Rev.A is for Spectre X360, F34 is for Spectre i suppose.

As a software developer, i do not blame them for the problem that, obviously, can happen. I blame them for locking out the rollback option, i blame them for the useless HP Support: u got a beta BIOS? Good for you, i got nothing usefull.

Did u try F32?

Anon16 · ‎11-14-2019

@Banjomx wrote:
… F31 is the bios i currently have and blocked the rollback option ...

Strange - I was able to roll back and forward, at will, between F31 and F28 before I installed F32. I even attached a screenshot to one of my posts of it operating on F28 after first experiencing the performance issue on F31.

@Banjomx wrote:
… (as well as killing the fans turning my notebook in a toaster). ...

I'm not sure I've encountered any of the BIOS versions 'killing' the fans.

I fully admit the only reason I upgraded to F31 from F28 in the first place was the opposite reason - on F28 the fans were coming on far to frequently... even when the PC was in the low 40C range, which really should not need fans at all.

F31 and F32, in my view do fix that problem... the fans do now only come on when the PC gets very warm. But that's what I want, so I've no complaint there. (I found the fans coming on when the unit was cooler very irritating)

The unit does now get fairly warm on the recommended and performance profiles, but I'm happy with that.

The Spectre units do come with the utility that gives you a choice of 3 options. One of which is "Cool"... so if the heat is a problem, you can use that - it does work, but does intentionally use the fans _and_ slow the PC down. But that is intentional. But it does make the unit significantly cooler.

@Banjomx wrote:
F31 work as expected and 98°C cpu (and 65°C internal) for 8 hours a day is within specifications limits.

Are you able to attain that with the (builtin) keyboard pushed backwards, instead of pointing forwards?

Because that's the problem that I'm having - I want to use a proper (separate, full sized) keyboard when working productively, so I push the builtin keyboard back out of the way to make room for the full sized keyboard - but that's when I find the performance limits itself (right when I want it!!)

Mine actually performs significantly better when on battery, on my lap while sat on the sofa, than it does when plugged in, on the desk with the keyboard pushed back to make room for a full sized keyboard to do productive work.

Banjomx · ‎11-14-2019

Thanks Anon for the tips, when i say the fans died i mean those do not run when needed. They only run in rare occasions.

To sum my experience, i had bios F22 before. I learnt the hard way to not upgarde bios when there is no need. Anyway, one day i left windows doing his updates and the next morning the notebook was a €2000 grill. The BIOS ninja updated within windows updates. My problems now are performance and heat when plugged (my use scenario), because in battery mode it's already throttled down.

With F31 the cpu rise in 90+ degrees quickly, stay there (throttled down) for 3-4 minutes, then fans kick in for 30 seconds, lower to 80°C and stop. I'm in the 90+ range within a minute and stay there for another 3-4 minutes. This continues for all day. Notebook internal average temperature is 65°C.

With pervious F22, the fan kicked in at 40°C internal temperature and cpu was much, much cooler. The spikes in 90+ was occasional during compile times.

This behaviour will shorten cpu life, battery life and makes this notebook running at half speed due to throttling.

HP Command Center does not have any impact: all 3 profiles does nothing for what i can see.

SpeedFan and NBFC do not work. Throttlestop is usefull only for throttling down the cpu in the hope of containing the heat.

BIOS option "Fan always on" does not work either.

So, in the end, i have a pc running throttled down while burning and i cannot force the fans to run or rollback the bios. I cannot take control of the fans and that is not acceptable. Taking the base flipped is a good hint and i'll try it (thank you!), but HP has to solve this problem: i want my fans to run.

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