Tandem Displays via Thunderbolt 3.0 Port - Is This Possible? ( HP Spectre 15-bl100CA x360)

[CoryDaBoss]

Hello everyone!

This is my first post, so hopefully I don't mess this up! I am a 99.95% happy owner of an HP Spectre x360 (2017) Ultrabook, and this laptop single-handedly got me through architecture school with flying colors! I love the styling, power, and use of materials, however there may be one caveat....

I recently got a job as a visualization artist, so I decided to upgrade my display setup to something more faithful to print- (no offence to HP's beautiful LED screen, but I needed a more faithful argb color space).

I recently purchased 2 ASUS PA278QV Proart displays (GORGEOUS!, but no embedded daisy-chaining power), so I have been seeking out a compact solution to running these 2 displays out of my one Thunderbolt3 port. This is where the heartaches began.

I have pulled up the literature and verified that the second port on the left- no. 4 (from the USB-C w/ sleep+charge) is / SHOULD be a Thunderbolt 3 port with more than enough horse power to run a tandem display provided I either have an external adaptor (EGPU), or a primary monitor that supports daisy-chaining. (Note, I grabbed a screenshot of the manual at the bottom of this article).

Much to my dismay, after buying a couple of different adaptors (CE_LINK TB3-2DP and the superior Elgato Thunderbolt3 Minidock), both exhibit identical symptoms:

• Only one display turns on at a time and;
• If I unplug and re-plug the EGPU in, the other display turns on

*It should be noted that both peripherals are not externally powered with a DC device, so perhaps a voltage draw is partly the cause?

To me, this would indicate bandwidth issues as it seems the ports are nowhere near their capacity of 40GB/S @ 100W. I have tried this with a series of monitor configurations as well:

• Both external monitors DP1.1/1.2 @ 59HZ, [800x600, 1280x960, 2560x1440 - native] <- Both w/ internal display on & off
• Both external monitors DP1.1/1.2@ 60HZ, [800x600, 1280x960, 2560x1440 - native] <- Both w/ internal display on & off
• Both external monitors DP1.1/1.2@ 75HZ, [800x600, 1280x960, 2560x1440 - native] <- Both w/ internal display on & off

Regardless of this they performed the same, so I turned to software. I updated the BIOS, Intel Display Driver (Both HP's latest, and Intels' latest), the Thunderbolt software (Hp's latest, and Intel's latest) and all controller firmware devices and still no cigar! My current setup is the following: (truncated for clarity):

• PC:      HP Spectre 15-bl100 x360 Convertible PC
• OS:      Windows 10, V.1909 (Build 18363.1016)
• BIOS:  American Megatrends F42. Rev.A
• CPU:   Intel i7-8550U @1.8 GHz (Embedded Displayport)
• GPU1: Intel UHD 620 – Driver 22.20.16.4836 (3 Displays @ 60Hz verified by Intel Report [1])
• GPU2: NVIDIA Geforce MX150 (MST capabilities unknown, but does not drive displays)
• DP1.2:  Yes
• DX:      V.12.0

• Thunderbolt Software: 16.3.61.275 (I've also tried Intel's latest 17.4.77.400)
• Thunderbolt Controller (The EGPU): 15D9 Gen, NVM Firmware 20.00

I can DM my DxDiag file if it helps!

I checked Intel's display adaptor specifications, and they claim that the i7-8550U should flawlessly support and power peripherals at thunderbolt's 40GB/S @ 100W with little issues according to their specs:

Source (Screengrab @ bottom):

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/122589/intel-core-i7-8550u-processor-8m-cache-u...

I have also read some contradictory threads online that claim that you cannot run both Displayport and HDMI concurrently as Windows 10 natively only supports 1 display channel at a time, unless you have 2 or more Thunderbolt3 ports on your processor board, whereas others speculate that HP (and select manufacturers) may have cut some corners with the Thunderbolt3 BUS (20 strand connection) and limited it's functionality as it wasn't necessary at the time (I am doubtful of this claim, however).

Elgato's claim regarding Display Limitations on Windows PC's (Screengrab at bottom):

Source:
https://help.elgato.com/hc/en-us/articles/360027963712-Elgato-Thunderbolt-Dock-and-dual-display-supp...

I am currently running (for the moment, hopefully) a USB-C to Displayport 1.2 adaptor and an DHMI port outboard, but I find (from a thermal perspective) running 2 different busses for graphics is hard on the GPU as the Intel is fully-integrated with it's GPU and drives all displays whereas the NVIDIA deals with 3D acceleration, caches, shaders, etc. and with the aluminum bodywork, it conducts tremendous heat from the core, and as a consequence  lows down VASTLY when running vector-based applications such as AutoCAD, Photoshop (with 4K images, and so on).

I'm sorry if this is an exhaustive article, but I feel as though I'm running out of options, and after spending $200 on an EGPU and to have it do nothing at all is a disheartening to say the least. For an ultrabook I would hope running 2 displays concurrently shouldn't be a huge task, so hopefully I'm just missing something elementary- If any HP hardware specialists / engineers want to jump on to this thread, it would be great to exchange ideas and how to get this connection to happen!

If I have missed anything, please don't hesitate to ask- and if you've made it down here, thank you for taking the time to read and help me out! 🙂 

Appreciatively,

Cory

P.S: Referenced images throughout the article- they wouldn't embed without breaking the HTML 😛

[CoryDaBoss]

Soooo, I'm guessing there's nothing??

I've tried to contact HP, but unless I pay a subscription to access help for the computer I bought, I'm stuck with HP's generic virtual assistant...  Returning my adaptor today and will start building a tower, I suppose. *sigh*

[praveen196]

@CoryDaBoss Welcome to HP Community!

I understand that the Tandem Displays via Thunderbolt 3.0 Port.

I have checked the manual ( page number 😎

USB 3.x SuperSpeed ports (2) Connect a USB device, such as a cell phone, camera, activity tracker, or smartwatch, and provide high-speed data transfer.

It will not support for the external display.

Keep us posted,

If you would like to thank us for our efforts to help you, 

Give us a virtual high-five by clicking the 'Thumbs Up' icon below, followed by clicking on the "Accept as solution" on this post, 

Have a great day!

[CoryDaBoss]

Hello Praveen196,

Thank you for your quick reply! I took a look through the manual you have provided, but couldn't help but notice my model number might not be there! According to HP's Hardware Identification Utility, my model is  15-bl1XX (x360-15-bl108ca) family 🙂  I noticed this model family wasn't referenced in the manual you had provided :s 

I screenshotted the model info from Hp's self-guided help site here! (It may or may not link properly, I'm sorry the site's not taking too kindly to either my *.png's or *.jpg's!)

 

I was peeking at the user guide for this model and the manual insists that I have 2x usb-C connectors both able to charge the PC, but one is combined thunderbolt-ready port while I have one standard SS usb on the left- (which I always use for my dongle!).. Perhaps I have missed something? I found this detail on page 5, item (4) describing the usb peripherals!

Thank you very much for taking the time!

Appreciatively,

CoryDaBoss

[praveen196]

@CoryDaBoss 

I understand your concerns.

I have checked the manual 

Your model support for external display. It is having a thunderbolt port.

Have a  nice day!!

[CoryDaBoss]

Hello Praveen,

This is great news to hear- I am relived! 🙂 

I guess now the question is.. which external adaptors would allow me to use the single thunderbolt port to output to 2 different monitors? I have tried with 2 different external GPU adaptors now- (both of varying degrees of quality) and my Thunderbolt software acknowledges the input devices, but only outputs to one monitor at a time.. and never, ever both. 😓

I have updated my BIOS, thunderbolt software (to both Intel's latest and rolled it back to HP's latest), and checked for NVM firmware for all devices, and I still only get the one result. According to some sources, USB-C has a 10 GB/s transfer hence allowing up to 2K, but a true thunderbolt port supports 4x this- hence why it can run 2 4k monitors at 60hz-- my setup is only 2x 2K monitors, so I am confused as to why? It is my suspicion that I may have 2x usb-c's as opposed to a true thunderbolt port which would explain the bandwidth issues.

Some sources have also said that you actually need 2x thunderbolt ports to use dual display from the single port...which sort of defeats the point- I hope this isn't true.

I checked Intel's processor specs, and they claim the one I have is more than capable, and unless I can try multi-streaming out of my GPU I feel quite stuck 🤔  (And I haven't a clue how to do this, either).

Is there another setting I have to play with that I am missing? I checked the bios configuration, and nothing about changing my peripherals were available, either. 😑

Thank you for your help so far- I do hope it's just a silly misunderstanding and that I can get this working!

[praveen196]

@CoryDaBoss

I understand your concerns.

Please let us know which adapter you are using.

Try updating the computer, this will install the latest updates -

Step 1 Windows Updates -

1) In the search box, type, and open Windows Updates.

2) Check for updates.

3) If the updates are available, click on install and restart the computer.

Step 2 Install updates using HP Support Assistant

1. In the search box, type, and open HP Support Assistant. 
2. Check for updates. 
3. If the updates are available, click on install and restart the computer.  

Note: If you do not have HP Support Assistant installed, Click here to download the same.

Have a nice day!!

[CoryDaBoss]

Hello Praveen,

Thank you for your response.

I have tried two adaptors of varying quality. The first adaptor was a CE-LINK TB3-2DP which was marketed as a iCan Thunderbolt to Displayport EGPU which was a total lemon. (I suspect it was actually a USB-C, so it only had a 10 gb/s capacity). As an additional measure, I tried searching for internal firmware (Non-volatile memory), but it capped out at v.20.00 (This is with both HP's recommended Thunderbolt software update and Intel's latest as well).

The product can be found here: http://www.ce-link.com/product/content/202004/1179.html

Hopeful that the external adaptor was at fault, I went out and purchased a reputable EPGU, called Elgato's Thunderbolt 3 Mini Dock, that works well with macs (but perhaps not Windows, in hindsight?). but is of excellent build quality (Germany does it right!), but exhibited the same issues- one screen would turn on, but NEVER ever both- if I unplugged / disconnected / reset the adaptor the other screen would turn on as the other off. And much like the previous adaptor, I enabled the device through the TB3 diagnostic, updated the TB3 firmware to HP and Intel's latest with identical results.

I read up on their technical FAQ's that apparently having a single TB3 port on your integrated graphics will only allow one display at a time, regardless of capacity and external modules.. which sort of defeats the point of getting an adaptor in the first place. Elgato claims that for ONE TB3 port to display multichannel Streaming (MTS), you need TWO TB3 ports, but only use one at a time. This, however is also contrary to Intel's claims about their processor board which leads me to think that HP has modified it slightly to better suit their setups.

I used Intel's Processor Identification Utility to pull up the right one before I dived in because I know there must be a plethora of configurations out there, so hopefully some of this can better communicate why I'm frustrated and confused by this.

Elgato Thunderbolt 3 Mini Dock Product Info: https://www.elgato.com/en/dock/thunderbolt-3-mini

And Elgato's their Technical Thread is here- I hope they're not right about this: https://help.elgato.com/hc/en-us/articles/360027963712-Elgato-Thunderbolt-Dock-and-dual-display-supp...

Intel's Processor Information: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/122589/intel-core-i7-8550u-processor-8m-cache-u...

Concerning my PC setup, everything is current as-per HP's Product Identification Utility, but to better help out I have the following setup:

• PC:      HP Spectre 15-bl100 x360 Convertible PC
• OS:      Windows 10, V.1909 (Build 18363.1016) <-.1082 as of writing
• BIOS:  American Megatrends F42. Rev.A
• CPU:   Intel i7-8550U @1.8 GHz (Embedded Displayport)
• GPU1: Intel UHD 620 – Driver 22.20.16.4836 (3 Displays @ 60Hz verified by Intel Report)
• GPU2: NVIDIA Geforce MX150 (MST capabilities unknown, but does not drive displays)
• DP1.2:    Yes
• DX:      V.12

• Thunderbolt Software: 16.3.61.275
• Thunderbolt Controller (The EGPU?): 15D9 Gen, NVM Firmware 20.00 (Flash Image unavailable)

Also regarding power, I tried changing power settings to see if that would help. I closed the lid, but kept the machine on (Perhaps it was too much of a draw on resources to drive a 4K display, and 2x 2K displays), I also adjusted the power management options in Device manager to never turn the ports off to save power- perhaps there's more setting to be adjusted that I am not yet aware of?

Thank you for your help this far. It would seem I'm not alone in this, so hopefully we can come to a solution, or see if HP's configured their processors differently. I am certainly disheartened that this awesome laptop can't (yet!) perform this simple operation. Hopefully a solution is within reach.

*EDIT: I also check for updates with both HP's Device Identification Utility and the app that came bundled with my PC. Both are up to date- I can send you a DxDiag log file if this helps you better identify any strange events.

Thank you for your time, I hope all is well 🙂

Cory

[praveen196]

@CoryDaBoss

I understand your concerns.

Please perform the below steps on the computer to run a System Test

- Shut down/Turn off the computer

- Once the computer is completely Shut down/Turned off

- Now press the power button once to turn on the computer and immediately start pressing/tapping the F2 key on the keyboard

- This should open the UEFI Diagnostic screen on the computer

- Please select System Test and then select Extensive Test

Have a nice day!!

[CoryDaBoss]

Hi Praveen,

I have performed these diagnostics in the past but ran them again (via advanced restart) as you have recommended (did the full extensive test), and also performed a component test- all have passed as expected. I think the problem is much more intricate than a what basic troubleshooting can yield.

What are your thoughts on this, do you have connections with any hardware developers? I would love to have a word with them.

Thank you,

Cory