03-18-2018 04:34 AM
> " ... there is no BIOS per se, it's UEFI with a simulated / emulated BIOS ..."
I must confess I have no real idea what that means, ot its' significance. I would really appreciate it if you would explain it, though - learning is my schtick, as it were.
There is an entry in the BIOS setup called "HP Factory Keys" (not the Action Keys reference, that is for using the Fn keys with or without the fn key and is completely different to that which I'm listing). I cannot reach this "HP Factory Keys" entry, it is greyed out in my machine.
I am hoping someone can accurately describe what this entry does, or is, or may be. It may be of no significance at all, or it may contain the answer.
03-18-2018 04:58 AM
I aint that clever, but if I bumble along...
UEFI did away with the MBR and original BIOS (IBM's Basic In Out System) and as usual with a PC, backwards compatibility was considered and so the Hybrid Secure/Legacy option is there.
Some UEFI's dont have a Legacy option, Acer comes to mind for some of their product range, W10 does not need it, so why have it?.
Some Linux Distro's also will create an MBR area for older needs.
Linux supports BIOS+MBR, BIOS+GPT, UEFI+MBR and UEFI+GPT.
What specific 'BIOS' are we talking about, where can I download one?
There is an Advanced set of options apparently, that are secret to avoid idiots like me bricking their PC's and whingeing to HP about it. I would look and change something vital.
03-18-2018 06:22 AM
A. > "What specific 'BIOS' are we talking about, where can I download one?"
It's called Insyde v2.2. Where can you get it ? No idea, sorry. There is an Insyde website but I doubt we can just front up and copy one of their commercial products - at least, not without asking.
B.> "Linux supports BIOS+MBR, BIOS+GPT, UEFI+MBR and UEFI+GPT"
Yes, now we have reached one of my points of confusion. In simple terms, I understand the difference between the older "BIOS" and the new UEFI; and between MBR and GPT (except a GPT disk may harbour an MBR for legacy, I think).
But both my machines, according to MiniTool Partition analysis, have GPT disks for the C:\ partition and Windows boot. Yet I know they are NTFS-formatted (Win7 cannot run on other formats) and in order to apply the NTFS-format I had to partition using MBR. According to the Geek website:
"Windows can only boot from GPT on UEFI-based computers running 64-bit versions of Windows 10, 8, 7, Vista"
So both my Win7 Pro x64 disks must be:
UEFI + GPT + MBR+ NTFS
because they both boot and run Win7.
Yet in order to actually install Win7 from an ISO over a Win10 installation, I had to use DISKPART to CONVERT MBR from GPT (otherwise installation stops dead). There is also a reverse DISKPART command here to CONVERT GPT (ie. back to GPT from MBR).
So it still makes no sense. An imperfect Tower of Babel.
And probably doesn't affect the Airplane F12 key anyway. But it's interesting to me and I appreciate your comments.
03-19-2018 01:53 AM
Well, the answer is finally in hand
There does exist an MS article, explanation and *hotfix* :
- You try to install a 64-bit version of Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1) or of Windows Server 2008 R2 Service Pack 1 (SP1) on an Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI)-based computer.
- The F11 and F12 keys are assigned to an OEM-specific recovery sequence.
- You press the F11 or F12 key during the installation process.
In this scenario, F11 and F12 keys do not work.
- The F1 through F10 keys work correctly during the Windows installation process.
- This issue does not occur if you install Windows in legacy mode."
This issue occurs because Windows 7 SP1 and Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 do not support the EFI_SIMPLE_TEXT_IN_PROTOCOL_EX protocol.
03-19-2018 03:28 AM
Well, sort of.
I was trying to figure out what registry changes were occurring in my G5 when I pressed F12 (which works ok on the G5) using the Process Monitor & Explore utilities to try and add these registry keys to the recalcitrant G6. Couldn't do it without much tedious frustration, so I typed into the search box:
how to find registry change when f12 key pressed ?
and up came the blankety-blank MS article, explanation and hotfix we were all looking for for 6-7 weeks.
finding that article in the search results was akin to magic
03-19-2018 07:03 AM
Ian, so you are saying you got the WiFi working?
The driver refused to load, not because of Win 7 per se but the issue you just described?
I was already trying to set up a Windows 7 environment bootable from an USB to start testing.
That is also somewhat painful as Windows 7 seems to be sensitive to the fact that most USB sticks have the Removable attribute set and that is not easy to change on most of the devices. Should be circumventable by slipping in a special driver to spoof the status or by getting a specific USB device that tells the system that it is fixed storage.
I might get an another external USB hard disk to see if it's easier with those but if you solved the enigma I might not bother.
I got as far as the Windows boot screen (with the colourful balls flying) and then after a while blue screen flashing rapidly and then black and stuck.
Could also be that Win 7 (yes I have the 64 bit SP1 which should be ok with UEFI) is not entirely happy working with my system although I do have Legacy mode enabled, which should load the CSM (Compatibility Support Module as well).
I used Rufus to create the bootable image.
03-19-2018 02:05 PM
Yes the F12 key (and the F11 for that matter) works after installing that MS hotfix so I have the internal AC1368 wifi adapter doing its' thing on the HP250 G6 at last.
It's not that the adapter driver refused to load. It loads and installs perfectly. It's just that Win7 Pro x64 (SP1) installed under UEFI is completely unaware that there *ARE* F11 and F12 keys - which is why pressing them had no effect. And HP has allocated power on/off for the wifi network adapter to the F12 key in their HP250 series machines. A perfect cluster-mess !
Because Win10 does not have this issue, the F12 key works perfectly in a Win10 installation.
[My HP250 G5 machine has the F12 Airplane key working properly in Win7 from day 1 because HP knew this was an issue and included the MS hotfix as part of the initial factory installation before retailing. I had reversed the G6 machine from Win10 to Win7 so this hotfix remained unknown to me, at the bottom of the garden, until I stumbled over it a few days ago.]
In my potted experience of Windows (starting in the mid '80s with MS-DOS), whenever a major hardware or firmware change occurred, MS had to release the next version of Windows to use it. NT was usb-unaware, Win2k was usb2-unaware, XP needed a kludge to use SATA disks, now Win7 has trickie-dickie issues with UEFI and is natively unaware of usb3 (Intel supplied the kludge for that with an all-round driver, presumably supplied because Win7 had become so popular and widespread) ... and so it goes.
> " ... Win 7 (yes I have the 64 bit SP1 which should be ok with UEFI) ..."
As you say, using Rufus to install that will work ok - but then you will need the MS hotfix to be able to use the F11 and F12 keys.
Thanks for the interest. That's what makes these forums worthwhile.
From the sevenforums website, most valuable in my view are the freeware recommendations for using rufus for installation and Macrium7 for imaging/backup/restore.
04-29-2018 09:23 AM
See this post...I have not gotten a reply to my question yet, but this person seems to indicate that installing The Intel driver version 18.40.0 allows the 3168AC wifi adapter to work on W7.
The problem is, I can't find that driver on Intel's website.
I was able to find this version on Dells website.
Anyone want to experiment?
04-29-2018 02:59 PM
Message on installation attempt is:
This software package cannot be installed on your system"
My system being an HP250 G6 Celeron, initially sold with Win10, which I reverted to Win7 Pro x64, giving rise to the wifi/F12 impasse.
I have commented before on an MS article wherein the F11 and F12 keys are not seen by Win7 x64, with MS offering a "hotfix" here:
Apart from that, the issue lies in the UEFI (or BIOS) where HP and other manufacturers have deliberately encoded the Win10 key (at MS request, of course). It is this that frustrates reversion to Win7 through blocking the AC3168 wifi power on/off F12 key.
Although MS hotfix linked above works for a UEFI Win7 x64 install, I still prefer to use my USB3 wifi adapter. It seems faster somehow (subjective, I know).
The MS article also states:
"This issue does not occur if you install Windows in legacy mode"
I have not tested that.