My HP will not boot/hungs. PCDiags returns - Drive Fault ID: RGD884-0009RK-KVWMG-61EH03

[RrichardD]

I was updating my system with "Personal Helper". Once finished I turned it off/normal shutdown. Next start-up did not happen. I got a black screen, blue windows logo, and the dot-halo (working). Left it alone thinking it was probably updating. 4 hours late the same - no change. Forced a shutdown (power button hold), then restated. Same thing. Repeated third time - same thing.

Started again and went into UEFI. HDD passed the quick test, but did a dummy spit on the long test.

Returned the error/fault ID code: RGD884-0009RK-KVXWMG-61EH03

If HP had a simple boot program that went on a thumb drive, I could run scandisk (scndsk C: /f) … however I have found nothing.

Advise/pointers would be appreciated. Thank you, Rick

[Paul_Tikkanen]

Hi, Rick:

The error code reported, Hard Disk 1 Full Test Failure, means the hard drive has failed and needs to be replaced.

HP has the 4 in 1 diagnostic tool which you can create at the link below...bottom center.

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/hpsupportassistant/pc-diags.html

You can also make a bootable USB flash drive using the W10 media creation tool at the link below, boot from it, and invoke the command prompt by selecting Shift + F10 at the Install Now screen, and run scandisk and whatnot.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

[RrichardD]

Dear Paul,

                   Thank you for your prompt response. I am in the process (separate tabs) of downloading the programs suggested, directly to separate USB thumb drives.  I actually have all three (additional restoration programs - HP); in a (safe) sandbox area of the 400 G2, however they are not available at this juncture (for obvious reasons … ie. 400 G2 is ill).

 In normal use circumstances I might agree the HDD may be cactus (unserviceable), or subject to a critical flaw/failure; however prior to the routine (weekly) HP system/update check - via the HP assistant - the HDD along with all the other key hardware (and Win10 system software), had been thoroughly checked/tested for faults or issues (5 third party - higher-end diagnostic packs: IO Bit (pro), Piriform(pro),  Glary (pro), etc.). Why? Some years ago I had a Seagate let go on me (spindle) about the time of their main HDD production move (teething problems) to SE Asian factories. Around a decade further back, the Seagate in my first HP Desktop 'let go' (same problem - like Chrysler tail/axle shafts). That was a 486sx33 (feature packed, in its day). At the time WD's were the best, so they replaced the Seagates. These days I think Fuji still just 'pip' Samsung, for top (quality/reliability/performance), followed by Hyundi, Seagate, WD, then the rest. (Seagate's woes caused them to turn-around their quality and reliability issues. Once very bad, now they are better than WD).

 I am not paranoid about drives, etc., but do run a full thorough preventative maintenance regime (Friday nights, without fail, then shout the systems down for fresh start Monday).

 The HDD itself and its drivers (in the 400 G2) were all fine/excellent. They still are. It is a driver failure (update wrote incorrectly) or some other data error on the HDD. The HDD and its connections are all (physically) alright, thus recoverable.

 We both understand/appreciate - extreme recoverable - means the entire OS would need reinstalling, and operating software. Hard - not really - just five or six days worth of programing/tweaks blow away in the wind.

 Problem - nope. Folks in CA got problems (homes and businesses getting burnt). I just have a minor inconvenience, which time and patience will resolve. If not, I'll buy a new one for under $2K. You cannot buy a new home, life or business … without a lot of pain/grief.

 I like to keep my minor dramas - in perspective.

 Get back to you after I try both USB TDs and have additional detail to report.

Kind regards,

Rick Finney. 

[RrichardD]

Progress update.

 Dear Paul,

 I have started (first attempt), with the Win10 installer/recovery tool, on a USB TB. This time (black screen, blue widows logo + the 'doing things' white dots halo) we have the modern scandsk line advising: Fixing (C:) Stage 1: 19% (70413 of 353792); Total: 7%; ETA: 27:41:07

(laugh = slow & it just occurred to me the Windows "doing something" {very slowly} logo is a good analogy of the EU/Brexit!)

 I think 28 hours might be optimistic for two reasons:

I). It is doing a 512Kb cluster block every ten (10) minutes at the moment, or a mega byte every twenty minutes. Extrapolating that for a terabyte HDD suggests several days (no drama - I will wait and do not expect it to finish anyway);

ii). I believe the driver update wrote a critical code error to the disk (something went wrong, so it is a broken thread of machine code, that allows recovery to get so far, then returns to fatal error routine = reformat or replace the drive … which physically is not broken … just data busted, for now). I expect it to get around 33>45% through, then repeat the error routine. No dramas … you just go through the steps/stages.

 It has just updated its ETA (added two hours … whoopie). I am going to the hardware shop to get some gardening supplies (Day's worth).

 I'll give you a progress report in 6>12 hours (the computer, not the gardening).

Cheers,

Rick Finney.

[RrichardD]

Progress (observation).

 Dear Paul,

 I just did some calculations, based on the current recovery progress rate:

500Mb (HDD recovery area) = 3.5 days (83.3 hours)

2.5 Gb  (HDD recovery area) = 17 days (416.6 hours)

 Recovery program's ETA is beginning to realize that, as the ETA hours are going up faster than its recovered cluster-block numbers (laugh). It has managed 11 cluster blocks since the last message. Rather slow, but it is progressing !

 Cheers,

Rick.

[RrichardD]

Progress (ion) … after gardening (watching snails speeding past ...

 "Fixing (C:) Stage1: 20% (73371 of 353792); Total: 7%; ETA: 92:34:00 …" (might be waiting for Santa to arrive!).

 Point is - it is still progressing (not hung-up yet). Stay tuned ...

Kind regards,

Rick Finney

[Paul_Tikkanen]

You're very welcome, Rick.

Hopefully, the drive will get repaired.

To get around having to reinstall Windows and programs which for me is not so big a deal since I run lean and mean, I use this free disk imaging tool and make a monthly backup of the PC's I use regularly.

I save the image to a portable hard drive, and the program has you create a bootable rescue DVD or USB flash drive which you use to access the recovery image stored on the hard drive.

I've actually used it a couple of times to restore PC's.

A long time ago a person in our IT department told me:  "It is not a matter of if a hard drive will fail, it is a matter of when."

https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

[RrichardD]

Dear Paul,

 I agree with the (young) IT gentleman about: not if, but when. I recall getting my first 3.6 Mega Byte (5 1/4 inch) HDD. Thought it was huge. Big improvement on running programs from disk drives (>360k ~ 720k) 8 inch floppies - mostly CP/M (MS Dos 1, under original name). Space shuttles had those. Will Bowers and I had to help NASA (used a slider to make 3.5" disks- unit and 1.4mb floppies - 720kbs) upgrade those, in Fall of 2002. Point being CP/M was the Shuttle's computer system/vintage.

 On HDD's, they are reliable if you monitor their health (spindles in particular). SDD's are not superior, because although solid state, it will be a decade before the reach the reliability benchmarks of present HDD units. If a SDD fails ((as has happened with my HP Laptop - connections, even though it has not been knock or treated any thing but very gently … maybe it was shipping/transport - ie. cargo handling, or cargo bay pressurizing/depressurizing (electronics in planes/subs are guarded for this - not so products in cargo holds or carry-ons). I do not (ex-airforce, when your grandmother was at kindergarten) use mobiles or laptops in aircraft, because there is always a chance something could interfere with the fly-by-wire systems. My little HP laptop did not go flying once I bought it.)) everything is lost, and even forensic recovery is difficult (hardly started as a science/practice … agencies side of the tracks).

 I have USB TD essential file back-ups (updated weekly/part of routine maintenance) and portable HDD back-ups done monthly.

 We both know - normal technical rates - it is not economic to repair/work on a failed unit for more that 30 minutes max. Beyond that a new replacement unit is the only (labor/job cost) option.

 Unfortunately that economic reality is eroding the skill/knowledge levels of technicians … save if the 'play with stuff', at home and after hours.

 The Prodesk 400 G2 is a nice little WP desktop. It would be responsible to call the IT folks across the road, then get a new one … because 15 minutes of my official time, is worth too much (to play with computers). I happen to like playing with computers, and it is a lot more fun than reading/correcting/editing reports, talking with managers, department heads, politicians etc.

 Having said that (laugh all you like), it will get a new HDD in the next 48 hours (time/efficiency); then I will put the old HDD aside because I am determined to fix it. First effort will be (forensic) data recovery, followed by restoring or reformatting it in an external HDD cuddy (got several), linked to the Z400 Xeon or MP350 dual.

 Holistically the world cannot afford/sustain continuing to 'replace'/discard things (all things), that can be repaired. Always thought/said this and I practice what I preach.

 Progress? (As expected): @76,432: 8%: ETA 151Hrs … it crashed out and started again from scratch. The disk is OK, but cannot be fixed by normal consumer software/programs. I will fix it later (in a cuddy, using forensic recovery routines).

 Thankyou for your recommendation of a back-up software. I will take a look at it.

 For the time being I will keep this thread open (for others to read/follow), as an educational resource … and because we cannot yet 'close the story'. We'll close it when I replace the drive and get the 400 G2 going again. Will likely fix the Laptop in the same session.

 Keep well and kind regards,

 Rick Finney.

[nb. Been watching clouds (long range), as well as 'speeding snails'. Got a lot of friends on the strip and down SC. Things should line-up in two~four days, to bring light/moderate rain to California.]

[Paul_Tikkanen]

Hi, Rick:

I hope you can get the drive repaired.

You know a lot more about this than I do.

I bought my first PC in 1995 at NAS Oceana, VA.

I was stationed in the USCG district office in Portsmouth, VA at the time.

It had a 512 MB hard drive, 8 MB of memory, a 486 processor, and all the kids in the neighborhood thought that was something else.

I didn't know a thing about computers. 

I could send e-mail and write documents at work on a PC, which used some crazy operating system developed by Unisys.

So, I had to learn Windows 3.1 and then Win 95.

When I retired from the service in 1997, I was still a babe in the woods as far as PC's were concerned.

I'd like to upgrade my PC's.  My desktop fleet consists of a Dell OptiPlex 7020 with an i5 4th gen processor, and then two HP 8200 Elite CMT's with an i7-2600.

They work great which is why I am in no hurry to buy new.

Yes, I sure hope that the folks in CA get some rain.  It's either too much or too little.

Here in the St. Louis area, we seem to be getting a lot of flooding more often.

Have a great day,

Paul

[RrichardD]

Dear Paul,
The "not if, just when" rule applies on the drive/repairs. I can/will do it because of the anti-waste philosophy, just a question of when. Probably the "Christmas break" (laugh), when you try to do - all the things that needed or you wanted to do - but had no time during the working year.

Was (stupidly) wrong about it spitting the dummy at 33>50%, and should have been thinking in the first <12%; on account that is where the firmware and critical OS drivers are placed by defragmenters/optimizers. Must be getting old/rusty (or just too tired/long nights 'playing' instead of sleeping) to have made such a glaring (obvious) error. Still, being down there means fixing the whole disk (remote via the cuddy) will be a whole lot faster. IT guys have the 400 G2 at the moment. Replacement drive will be bigger/better/faster (the slightly ill drive was a WD, but it is not a hardware failure), and they've got carte-blanche to soup-up everything else while they've got it (ready in a day or two). It is an i5 quad also. I am really very impressed with the Intel I? x 4/8 series chips, even though I consider them 'small' against the big machines. Even the z400 Xeon is small (workstation), contrasted to the MP 350/Z800 and other rack mount dual Xeons.

Nevertheless - your old 486 (66/100) could have creamed the first NCR and NEC mainframes I started on. Faster, more functions, massive increase in memory resources (speed and capacity). We needed twenty minutes - if all went right - just to boot them. Before that you needed half a hour to get the independent, isolated power generators steady (power sine), then the computer room (sealed), temperature to 65' +/- 4', and the dust extractors, plus dedicated earthing all 'green'. Three in eight they would not boot correctly, so it took another two hours to get ready to try again (1972/3/4). I recall getting really excited when we took delivery of our first 'orange' EGA monitor. So much easier on the eyes than the green-meanies. Out of that grew the first NEC/IBM/Unisys CP/M "bench tops", with the dual 8" floppy drives. Apple one came along 79-80, allowing us to write our own rom chips. Problem was they (roms) cost 10K each and were write once only. Made a mistake (one digit) on our first try, then had accountants going crazy for weeks (really need the helpful encouragement). About the same time I designed the first hot connection sub-board/daughter board, for some ancillary function equipment … because I kept getting electrocuted every time I worked hot fixes (manual adjust trim pots and the like). A good zap made you dangerously shaky for several hours - so halted trouble shooting/fine tuning. Apple, Apricot (UK), Amstrad & NEC seized on that, making the first Apple II, 286 PC, etc. a reality and within a year the West were building thousands of machines with 5 1/4 floppy drives, while Amstrad made the first (patent/weird) 3 I/2 hard cased floppy. Things started to speed-up and we had the 3.25 MB hard drives around 87~88, plus my technology (split board/daughter board) allowed ram memory upgrades to 800K etc. (laugh - was huge at the time, and little Billy {Gates} never thought it would be possible. Next few years it was a case of 'upgrading' every few months (if you had the funds), and arguing about whether or not to keep the maths co-function processors (SX vs DX). IBM/Intel/NEC hit a potentiality brick wall at DX100, so stuff stalled until I wrote the "Pentalogic" whitepaper for the Clintons Mk1. That was/is "multithreading", then we got in an argument about RISC (p3 vs p4x) about the time you got your 486-512-8 (93>94). I still think RISC was a mistake, but it was hardware engineering mindsets vs. software engineering mindsets. RISC makes software a lot easier (Mac/Win 95); however vastly reduces the scope/capacity of the hardware and system coding/coders. Was a fundamental error (holistically), which is why I stick with Xeons (deep work). I worked with the mob doing GEOWORKS (Deb Dawson & friends - oppn to Win 3/3.1) and GEOS2/2.2/2.2R … before they ran off to EU, rebranded as "New Deal" - flopped, then got a gig with Seimens/Nokia doing mobile phone aps/interface. In Geos2.0 … we had 256 color drivers a year before Windows. Far superior, but had stupid corporate management (so it failed). IBM's OS2 was lightyears ahead of MS DOS, but the board did not back it or commit to it.

If the Texans had Paul Schmidt (CEO, Photodex) at the Alamo, the probably would have won. He was/is a graphics genius and Texan/National Treasure. Compupic 6 (2002) is the best image processor ever written (still is, although difficult to get fully functional in Win 10X), yet folks flock to Adobe (**bleep**), etc. or try to get professional image results with seriously inferior packaged DSLR software. It is just the way of things (corporate). As a nation the US accepts 'second best', 9 times in 10.

Thus what we end-up with is a mishmash of second rate hardware-software mostly guided for two decades by the priorities of MS. For the last three years or so, the military in Russia and China have been driving (mega-funding) development - in turn forcing the Government/West/EU to start trying to catch-up.

So - fun times are here again (hardware design/development).
My direct email is: richardvfinney@gmail.com
We are straying somewhat from the core issue of this thread - however we are having fun, lots of folks are reading/learning, and I do not think Dion et.al., would interrupt; however we must set an example and follow protocols/rules. Mail me directly and we will chat a bit, which should make Dion and company, rather happy.

For the tread (still open) - the Prodesk 400 is getting a new hard-drive, simply because directly repairing the damaged drive is not - for general users - viable in technical costs and down-time costs. At the same time (replacement HDD), its ram and ancillaries will all be upgraded; then the last back-up USB-TD will be re-integrated to the system.

Interim lessons.

* Back-up your files every week.

* It is not financially viable to try repairing something if the labor time exceeds 30 minutes (cheaper to replace).

* If you do have to put a system in for major repairs, upgrade it as much as you can afford at the same time, because you save money (long run) and come away with a better performing fully refurbished computer (new or as good as new).

Cheers,

Rick.