Spectre x360 15-df0126ng fan control and noise

[ThetaRho]

Hi, I own the Spectre x360 15-df0126ng model (Coffee Lake H CPU and 1050 Ti GPU).

Unfortunately, this model seems to have fan noise issues on low load, especially when

- plugged on AC (non-charging, battery is at 100%)
- using a secondary screen (HDMI or DP over USB-C dock)

On battery, the fans start sometimes, but not for a very long time. But it is quite audible (3000 RPM, see below).

The strange thing is that the system ramps up fan speed at very little to virtually no load. For example when just watching a low-res YouTube video, the CPU is around 10% @800-1200MHz, the GPU is also below 10% and remains at its lowest clocks. All temperatures (CPU, GPU, SSD, ACPI zone 1) are below 40°C, but the fans keep spinning at 3800...4200 RPM (Speedfan), which are already higher fan levels.  Even when stopping all programs, the fans do not turn off ever again.

When using the HP Command Center, the fans spin down after changing options, but revert to their higher speeds after some seconds.

All in all, the fan response to temperature, CPU and the Command Center inputs is inconsistent and not easily explainable by watching system load or temperatures.

Additionally, the fan noise is not a constant noise, but has a slightly modulating whistling peak at approx. 3 to 4 kHz (by Smartphone measurement), which is very annoying to listen to. When removing the back lid, the whistling disappears completely and the fan sound is very smooth. When holding (not entirely closing) the back enclosure against the notebook, the whistling gets louder and maxes out when putting the back lid in place.  When partly covering the corners of the bottom air inlet, the whistling sound decreases, but it does not disappear entirely. So I guess that this is some resonant acoustics effect between the fans and the ventilation grid in the back lid.

Also, the fan's lower RPM limit seems to be 3000 RPM which is already very audible.
If the fan control could start more gradually, this would likely be an improvement.

I wonder if this is related to my device only or if this affects other users as well.

Latest BIOS F.11-12/05/2018 is installed.

It might be of interest that this model does not have a Balanced/Performance option in the current BIOS version and that the Command Center (1.1.40.0) lacks the forth option (Lower Noise).

I hope that these issues can be addressed by BIOS and/or HP command center upgrades.

[simitu]

I had same problems with 13 model. It seems, that new Spectre serie is cursed. Constantly spinning fan at high rpms, no slow rpm modulation, very rarerly fan shut down. Better on battery, but still very noisy. On AC just mad. I very appreciated, if there is really quiet mode or possibility to set own curve of fan rpms according to temperature (NoteBook FanControl utility for example). I addressed this issues to HP already, they said, sending it to appropriate team. But I returnet notebook to seller meantime.

[ThetaRho]

In fact, I have developed a Notebook FanControl configuration, but it doesn't improve the situation.
There is a Embedded Controller register (also used by the HP Command Center) which selects the fan control algorithm.
But I couldn't find a mode allowing to select a manual speed. I've stopped putting effort in this, as it really is the manufacturer's responsibility.

My business HP Elitebook shows that it is possible. It also turns on fans frequently but they start at a nearly inaudible level, preventing that heat builds at low system loads.

I really hope that the first software/BIOS versions for the late 2018 series have some optimization potential for low-load situations.

[simitu]

Yes, I found out the same, when tried NBFC. Only to turn on and off fan is possible. And one register changes as changes profile in HP Command Center. I think, that HP has some own proprietary controller with own firwmare, which drives fans according to profile selected through EC and additional IR sensors, not only via CPU temperature. I am still waiting for answer from HP and hope for new BIOS / firmware, because I like this new Spectre series. 13 inch version has moreover only integrated graphcis, so no so much heat asi 15 inch version witch Nvidia dedicated and it acts as vacuum cleaner most of the time : (

[ThetaRho]

I totally agree, the late 2018 series is great in design and functionality. Thanks for confirming that this affects also devices with less power draw. I was already thinking on swapping the device to one with a lower-end GPU. But if these have the same noise profile, there is little benefit.

Mentioning the IR sensors makes perfect sense here, as the observable sensor values do not correlate with the fan speed at minor loads. Interestingly, the behavior in the upper load range is very explainable and consistent. Device gets very noisy but remains adequately cool. Anyway, after stopping 3D-intensive applications, the device cools down below 40°C but remains in the medium fan speed range.

I have an active support case and I am waiting some internal HP discussions as well.

[ThetaRho]

Finally some experiment when on battery:

- Put Windows power slider to "prefer battery"

- 1920x1080 (less resources than 4k)

- Using tent mode

- Play a 720p movie via WLAN

Results:

- Temperatures are about 30°C

- GPU is idle, cores are at 800MHz

- Fans are always at 3000 RPM with a high intermodulating whistle, so that it is near to impossible to watch a movie nearby.

I "hope" that this is turns out as a defect, maybe the fans themselves or the PWM electronics, as improving the fan control through software updates would likely not help with the whistling.

I will open a new case for the sound - it seems to be a second problem besides the fan control logic.

[simitu]

13 inch model has this whistling too. Audiable only from some angles for me. I thought, it is bearing in fan, but I have returned my Spectre to seller already, so I can not try it more. But it seemes, that is aerodynamic noise according to your experiments. Maybe edges of new gem cut design.

[emasty]

Same here. I have the fully spect out 13 inch gem cut. It is beautiful but a pain to use and not fun.

I am coming from a 2014 MacBook pro which was silent nearly all time except for heavy load. 

But the spectre fan is going mad at light web browsing  also disabling turbo only helps a little. 

I also created a nbfc conifg but with the same conclusion. The register setting only seems to be an "indication" for the fan control, which doesn't help at all.

I am currently in contact with HP and they said, they can reproduce the issue but with no suggestions what to do.

Currently I am thinking about switching back to Apple and accepting a 2000€ loss on the spectre. I cannot stand the noise...it's driving me mad. 

[NicolasFR]

I have the same problem on a Spectre x360 15" Gem cut (8750h & 1050Ti), with everything updated (BIOS F.22)

I made some research, and found out something interesting :

There are 2 fans in the 15" (visible in SpeedFan) : "fan 1" for graphic card (Nvidia 1050Ti dGPU), and "fan 2" for the processor (including integrated Intel Graphics 630)

- "Fan 1" (for the dGPU) starts from 0RPM immediately to 3000RPM under little load, wich is already loud!

- "Fan 2" (for the processor + Intel Graphics 630) can start around 150RPM, inaudible, that one is OK

The interesting part :

• When using only the internal screen, for little load (browsing, Office, video playback or stream) the Intel Graphics 630 is used, and the NVidia dGPU is idle (0% usage) (you can check in the Task Manager to see what GPU is used by each program). Thus, the Nvidia dGPU temp is low (under 40°C), CPU temp is low (under 30°C)  and the two fans are turned OFF. Under bigger load (game), the Nvidia GPU is used, the dGPU temp increases, and the two fans turn ON. Everything is fine, that's the correct scenario.

•  When an external screen is plugged-in (via HDMI for example), ALL programs use ONLY the Nvidia dGPU, and the Intel Graphic 630 is NEVER used (0% usage). Even for browsing, small Youtube video, etc... the big Nvidia dGPU takes all the load. Therefore, the Nvidia dGPU temp increases, and the two fans turn ON, even under little load.

The Intel Graphics is much more efficient for little load, and should always be used for small tasks. I don't know if it's a BIOS problem, a Nvidia Optimus problem, or Intel driver problem.

In the Nvida Control Panel, forcing the "preffered graphic" to "Intel Gaphic 630" has no effect.

What helps a little :

• Open all the programs you needed (browser, mail, etc...) without the external screen plugged in. These programs will used the Intel Graphics. Then, plug the external screen. From now on, every new program that you open will use the Nvidia dGPU, but programs that were already open will continue to used the Intel Graphics until closed. This will reduce the temp of the Nvidao dGPU, and will help with fan noise. By the way, this proves that the Intel Graphics is active and usable even when using an external display, there is no hardware incompatiblity.
• In Windows 10, in the control panel there is a "Graphic setttings" where you can force each program to used one specific GPU.  You can then set your browser, media player, netflix, etc... to use Intel Graphics only. But this is only on a per app basis, there is no global swtich, and no dynamic switching for instense tasks.

What HP should do :

• Allow the fan 1(Nvidia GPU fan) the turn on under 3 000RPM, and speed up progressively (like fan 2, the processor fan), instead of going from 0RPM to 3 000RPM directly
• Increase the temperature threshold at wich the fans start to turn ON. At the moment, the fans start even when the laptop is almost cold, and all internal temp are below 45°C. Or give us a "Quiet mode" in the HP command center, like in the 13" Gem Cut
• Find why every app is forced to used the Nvidia GPU instead of the integrated Intel Graphic when an external screen is plugged in.

Can anyone from HP send this to the adequate technical team (in charge for BIOS update for example?)

Thanks in advance

Internal screen onlyWith external display plugged inProof that tere is no hardware incompatiblity to use Intel Graphics when an external display is plugged-in

[k-ing]

really good workaround!! thanks for that!! i can just agree all your statements.

at least, a quite mode would be pretty cool 😎  i know it will cost me some performance but i am agree with that, i can not hear that whistling sound every night, i woluld wish, that i can switch that fan noise.

i can with fan control app (nbfc), turning the fan on and off, but it cause sometimes thermalshutdowns, what is not so good at all for the Mainboard.

please HP allow us to control that fan noise. thx