HELP required to max out my first Z420 Project PC

[DGroves]

sigh,...you just don't get it do you? HP only produced ONE MODEL PCI-E ZTurbo Card there are no revisions to this card

stop wasting your time and others time looking for what does not exist

the only thing to look out for is if buying the card without a SSD, make sure the SSD mounting screw is included

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234136027959?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-z-turbo-drive-256gb-pcie-%28ahci%29-solid-state-drive

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/SearchDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&searchTerm=Z%20T...

[itsmyname]

@Rhothgar -- Are the 2 machines I may sell registered to my Microsoft account I wonder and if so is there any way I can 'park' the licences for  me. 

The way that I understand Microsoft Licensing is that when you sell the computer, you are including the product-key with the hardware -- the license "sticks" with the motherboard.  Further, if you "wipe" the disk-drive before you sell the hardware, the product-key becomes invalid, and cannot be used to activate any other installation of Windows 10. 

Note that if the buyer installs Windows 10 onto a "wiped" disk-drive, and the buyer clicks "I do not have a product-key", the Windows Installer will "call home", and retrieve the product-key, and Windows will automatically activate on the buyer's hardware.  In this case, your right to use the product-key has been revoked.  Basically, when it "calls home", it cannot tell if you are just "routinely" re-installing Windows on the computer that you have not sold, or if it is the buyer who is re-installing Windows onto the identical hardware as when you owned the computer. The right to re-install Windows on the same computer, as many times as you want, without purchasing a product-key for each install, is a nice feature of Microsoft's Licensing contract.

[Rhothgar]

No I don’t get it. You’re right. you’re an IT professional. This is second nature to you. 

SDH said in their first reply this:-

“ZTD:  HP should have called the first the ZTD G1 and they did call the second the ZTD G2.  The G1 is for the ZX20 generation and also can work on the ZX40 workstations.  The G2 is only for the ZX40 generation.  G1 uses specific HP AHCI controller M.2 sticks and G2 uses specific HP NVMe controller M.2 sticks.  On a practical level there is no chance of ever using a NVMe HP ZTD G2 in your Z420.  That rabbit hole is way too deep.”

it specifically says do not try to use G2 yet you have posted a link to a G2, have your not?

I then see listings like this:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-HP-Z-Turbo-Drive-G1-G2-PCI-E-Card-742006-003-with-SSD-M-2-256GB-/...

where the seller states it is G1/G2. So surely it cannot be both hence wanting to go by a part number for then there is NO doubt surely?

so to me, this:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-HP-Z-Turbo-Drive-G1-G2-PCI-E-Card-742006-003-with-SSD-M-2-256GB-/...

will NOT work on a Z420 as a boot drive unless I go the refind/duet path? Yet the damned sleeer mentions G1-G2!!!

You may recall that I posted a link to a HP Z Turbo Dual Pro Drive Card and was shot down about that. 

BUT you are telling me that they only make ONE card so my question is then why would the dual drive not work if they only make one card?

None of it makes sense. Surely BbZ posting a part number would answer my question and I would have no doubt that what he says is correct. Nor would I have any doubt if you posted a definitive part number. 

That’s not wasting anyone’s time. It is quite the opposite. It is removing the need for discussion on it and me ending up with something that works without the risk of buying something that doesn’t because clearly it appears to me that there is one than one Z Turbo Card available. G1/G2/M2 whether they be in AHCI format or NVME.

Yep. More confused than ever now. 

[Rhothgar]

Very useful information, itsmyname. Thank you. 

Makes sense really that you can lose the right to lose it.  Always wondered how Bill Gates is so rich if he sold a copy of Windows that you could constantly upgrade  in perpetuity.  

[DGroves]

again, READ what i'm writing it's not that involved you seem to be half reading things and this is causing you confusion

your comment :

I then see listings like this:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-HP-Z-Turbo-Drive-G1-G2-PCI-E-Card-742006-003-with-SSD-M-2-256GB-/...

where the seller states it is G1/G2. So surely it cannot be both hence wanting to go by a part number for then there is NO doubt surely?

YES IT CAN BE BOTH, THE PCI-E CARD CAN USE either THE AHCI SSD OR A NVME SSD, and as a side note this card has had the "q1" transistor mod done which removes the lock that prevented this card from working on other computers

THE SSD INSTALLED ON THE CARD IS WHAT MAKES IT A  G1 OR G2 MODEL this card was made for the Zx20 line of workstations and normally will not work in other systems unless hardware modded

the link you provided the seller does not explicitly state if the SSD is AHCI or NVME, hence you would need to ask him if

the ssd model number contains a  "VP" or "HP"

the HP Z Turbo Dual Pro Drive Card is a completely different card.......look at the link i provided that shows pictures of both cards

the dual pro card only comes in NVME (no AHCI ) this card also requires the bios support bifurcation which the Zx20 bios's do not support this is why this card cannot be used in your workstation this is mentioned in the specs/white paper on this model card

one last time,  the HP Z Turbo card is specific to the Zx20/Zx40 lines of workstations and it will take the AHCI or NVME ssd which determines the HP G1/G2 model name

the HP Z Turbo Dual Pro Drive Card is a completely different card for the later HP "Z" workstation line and this card requires the bios support bifurcation

[Rhothgar]

Thank you.

That SSD is NVME as it shows on the 2nd photo as an MZVP.

I was unaware that these could be modded to work with both AHCI or NVME only where have previously said they can be modded to work on other systems.

I'll do some searches for what transistor needs changing as that is also an option if I buy the wrong type ie NVME but then decide I want it for AHCI.

At the risk of misinterpreting what you have said:-

The card I linked to has been modded (I can now see that in their item specifics) so it will work with either AHCI (as a boot drive) or NVME (as a secondary drive) providing it has the correct SSD in.  In this case, it has NVME so can only be used as a secondary drive unless I go the refind/duet root.

A G1 specific card is AHCI specific and a G2 is NVME specific and if the card has had the q1 transistor mod, it can accept either type of SSD.

That doesn't seem like a bad price for that US card with the SSD included.

I don't feel I half read posts because I appreciate how much time you invest in responding.  You will notice I am very verbose to the point of being pedantic about things because I feel I see things in black and white hence this post above being verbose about the card I linked to and my understanding of what you have explained about it and my understanding, or lack thereof, of this mod it had had and what that enables in the card.

I really do appreciate your time and advice.  Thanks again.  Hopefully I have now got a grasp of this!!!  I'll just go and get my flak jacket just in case...😥

[DGroves]

STOP,..........again read what i wrote....... I never stated or mentioned that the HP pci-e card needed to be modded to support AHCI or NVME

WHAT I DID WRITE was that the card could be modded to allow the card to work with systems OTHER than the HP Zx20/40 systems by removing "q1"

the HP card supports AHCI or NVME out of the box......no changes are necessary

you need to slow down and carefully read what is written

[Rhothgar]

OK. 

I’ll get one ordered. Am I at least right in my understanding about AHCI being for boot only unless Refind/duet with NVME?

it would be nice if I am at least eight on something. 

just found a WindowsImageBackup on an old drive. Not sure if the splash screen looks like Vista or Windows 7. Just restoring it as a tester.  Fingers crossed it is a clean licensed install of Windows 7 64 bit. 

[DGroves]

correct,...... the Zx20 line lacks the necessary nvme boot code in it's bios and while this can be worked around with software based loaders like refind/duet this method is not for everyone's usage/cup of tea........... hence if you can find a pci-e based AHCI ssd that's the way to go as it's plug and play.

you do not need the HP pci-e M.2 card any generic pci-e M.2 card will work fine (and can be used on other systems)

here's a good example,...READ Carefully the next lines!!!!

this card supports up to a 22110 sized ssd, many cards only go up to the more common 2280 size

this card has power regulation parts on the card (see magnified view) which is desirable

however many vendor's are also selling this card without the power regulation parts installed

both cards will work, but the one with the pwr parts is obviously preferred

preferred generic

https://www.ebay.com/itm/132957179255

Cheap 2210 card

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194620567525?hash=item2d504a2fe5:g:BdIAAOSwLzBe-ZB0

  if you simply want a cheap bootable ssd, then any midrange or performance SATA based ssd will work, and for most people/usage patterns it's more than fast enough

the NVME based ssd's can however be used as a non bootable drive on the Zx20 line of workstations

[SDH]

**bleep** forum ate my BIOS settings post.  Enough for today.  It may get redone tomorrow.