cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
  • ×
    Information
    Fix Windows 10 Update Issues

    Resolve Windows 10 or update issues on HP computer or printer– Click Here

  • post a message
  • ×
    Information
    Fix Windows 10 Update Issues

    Resolve Windows 10 or update issues on HP computer or printer– Click Here

  • post a message
Highlighted
Level 3
33 31 0 10
Message 1 of 44
1,647
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

HP ENVY x360 13-ar0212ng
Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit)

Hello community,

mainly hello HP,

 

first of all, I'm working in an IT company myself and I've already checked everything with my IT colleagues, so I can tell you for sure, that my brand new Envy 13-ar0212ng can only get fixed with updated WIFI drivers and a BIOS Update that isn't available yet.

The hardware was tested and everything is ok technically!

Also I've found many user reports about the same problems with that model with faulty CPU fan control and WIFI issues.

Some of that reports are not very detailed so I just believe they didn't find out what is the reason for the overheating because they are just regular users.

HP germany isn't responding since 2.5 weeks to my problem! What a shame...

 

 

Problems:

 

1. Overheating with system lockup

This problem is very critical and potential dangerous, because it can cause the battery to overheat as well, what can cause an explosion with a 1000°C hot flame. You could melt metal at that temperature.

To be clear, the laptop is perfectly cool and quiet while normal usage and also heavy usage is not problem and the fan stays on a normal rpm and noise level. The CPU normally doesn't go higher then 65°C under heavy usage and keeps running cool at around 37-40°C, as long as the screen stays on.

This problem only appears, when the SCREEN is going to standby.  -> The Envys fan is also completely shutting down. But the CPU is still working because it's not the regular system standby.

Computer standby is completely disabled! BIOS is set to "Fan alway on" and Windows system cooling policy is set to "Active".

Sometimes it also happens, that the fan isn't starting when waking up the display. Also the keyboard backlight and powerbutton backlight is affected by this (see 3. at the bottom).

I've also got another 1.5 years old Envy that doesn't act like that.

It's enough if the Envy is starting an automatic Windows Update in the background to run very hot and lockup.

Reproducible with CPU stresstest (eg with CPU-Z) and setting the screen timeout to 1 minute. After 2 minutes the CPU is around 95°C hot in a cool 20°C environment with perfect conditions for a laptop (eg airflow isn't blocked by something). Before the screen is going to standby the maximum was around 65°C while stresstesting the CPU with CPU-Z and fan was running with normal rpm.

I've tried different drivers and I've also tried an older BIOS version from the HP Website as well.

The Envy was delivered with BIOS Version F.13 and the newest BIOS on the HP Website is F.12, where already something was written about fan adjustments in the change log. So there is a known problem with the fan, but nothing really gets changed about or nobody really realize what is causing that devices to overheat.

With the downgrade to BIOS F.12 the only difference is, that the fan has more rpm at the same temperatures compared with the delivered F.13.

Some BIOS developer might have done something wrong when setting up the power state for screen standby.

The BIOS has to get fixed immediately!

I've attached a video where you can see a reproduced test scenario. I started using Notebook FanControl the first time for test and information purposes, when I realized that laptop has a overheating problem. The problem was already there before.

 

2. WIFI issues - instable WIFI and driver is hanging up including system BSOD

Disconnects every few minutes (conditions are fine, all other devices don't have problems.

That problem is known for the Realtek RTL8822BE module since the beginning of 2019 and there is no fix yet.

Also it's known, that the module is very incompatible with Windows 10 1903 but this is the Windows that Envy was delivered with.

I've installed Windows 10 1909 beta and with driver version 2024.0.8.107 [03.05.2019] it's working ok, but not perfect.

All other drivers are crashing every few minutes, but this one could have lucky days or gives you hours before hanging up.

Sometimes this working driver is also crashing and I do get BSOD few minutes later when WIFI connection broke up.

Why delivering a device with such a worse WIFI module and the most worse Windows version for this device?

Seems that no one is really testing that models before delivering to customers.

HP has to get in contact with Realtek for new drivers and/or Firmware, else most customers will continue to send their new devices back to the dealers and HP can consider to do some more employee termination workflows soon because of bad stocks.

 

3. Keyboard- and Powerbuttonbacklight failing to reactivate sometimes

Sometimes when the keyboard backlight is going to sleep (thats normal, it has it's own firmware controlled standby), it doesn't wake up again. Also the powerbutton-light would stay off  together with the keyboard backlight sometimes after waking the device from the screen standby.

This might be a combined problem with 1.

I can only get it working with tricks (see video at the bottom), but sometimes I have to completely shut down the Envy (reboot doesn't work, so it's not a driver issue!).

If that phenomenon with power-LED and keyboard-backlight happens, also the fan isn't starting even if the screen is on and CPU is already hot (see video below that is starting while that phenomenon happened).

I had another Envy that was forcing me to send it back to the dealer and this one also had keyboard backlight problems, but that one was also ignoring 20% of the buttons pressed, even after the whole laptops hardware was changed.

I'm sure it's a general problem with HP notebooks at the moment.

 

Here is the mentioned Video that is showing the fan issue and the keyboard-backlight and powerbutton-light issue. You can hear the fan starting after doing the workaround with the fingerprint reader, that isn't working forever. This test was done without any CPU stresstest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAMojLINHTk

 

I hope someone from HP will finally address that issues and gives some serious feedback to me, else I'm forced to also send this device back to the dealer next week and it would be my last HP product for the next years.

Too bad, it would be such a nice notebook.

Update (Januar 2020) - Der Hersteller ist unfähig, begriffsstutzig und/oder ignorant. BIOS + Standby + Lüftersteuerung fehlerhaft BITTE ALLE BETROFFENEN HIER...
43 REPLIES 43
Highlighted
Level 3
33 31 0 10
Message 2 of 44
1,566
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

It would be nice to get any feedback from HP.

 

I might have found a solution for the WIFI issue

I've found out that at this model (13-ar*) the WIFI module isn't soldered on the board.

It must be a M.2 card with size 22x30mm, so it could be possibly changed with a working Intel WIFI + BT module that costs something around 20-25 USD (new).

I didn't check that myself till now, to not loose the warranty.

 

But there is still the main problem with the BIOS that is shutting down the CPU fan on a simple screen(-only) standby, what is causing massive overheating of the CPU.

I already tried to find out if there is a work around, but there is none!

 

Should I start a livestream that is showing how the laptop will overheat until the battery explodes with a statement what I already have tried to address the problem to HP and get any solution or at least any sort of answer?

That would be a good PR for HP for sure.

Reply
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Level 3
33 31 0 10
Message 3 of 44
1,541
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

Yesterday a BIOS update was released, but it's dated 19. September 2019, so its from 3 weeks ago.

The Version is F.16.

The only mentioned fix is something about BitLocker wasn't accepting codes.

 

I've tested that BIOS Version and the fan is still shutting down when the screen goes to sleep.

 

The only "workaround" I've found to prevent overheating is to limit Ryzen 7 CPU speed at 5% in the power settings.

That will limit the CPU temperature around 80°C with 20°C room temperature while running a stresstest.

But that is still too hot for a long time period and will still heat up the battery too much.

A simple file compression/conversion process would be enough to cause that temperature.

Reply
0 Kudos
Highlighted
HP Support Agent
HP Support Agent
26,365 26,320 2,190 3,359
Message 4 of 44
1,520
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

@schildzilla I understand your concern and I have brought your issue to the attention of an appropriate team within HP.

They will likely request information from you in order to look up your case details or product serial number.

Please look for a private message from an identified HP contact.

 

Additionally, keep in mind not to publicly post personal information (serial numbers and case details).

If you are unfamiliar with how the Community's private message capability works, you can learn about that here.

Thank you for visiting the HP Support Community.

Riddle_Decipher
I am an HP Employee

Reply
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Level 3
33 31 0 10
Message 5 of 44
1,352
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

Update:

 

The device was at the repair and came back with a new Mainboard, CPU and SSD and was supposed to be tested as "ok".

 

NOTHING was ok. The same problem was reproduced within 5 minutes.

I clearly told on a paper that it is a software/firmware problem.

Due to every core component was changed this is showing that all (of these) models have this problem!

 

By the way, this device doesn't support ANY standby state at all (translated from german to english), not even the important S3 and hybrid standby:

 

C:\Windows\System32>powercfg -a
The following standby options are available:
Hibernation
Fast Boot

Not available on this system:
Standby (S1)
The Systemfirmware does not support this standby mode.

Standby (S2)
Die Systemfirmware does not support this standby mode.

Standby (S3)
The Systemfirmware does not support this standby mode.

Standby (S0)

Hybrid Standbymode
Standby (S3)

Tested with original Windows and drivers, AMD drivers and newer Windows.

 

In the meantime another owner with the same issues wrote a comment to my YouTube video above.

That proves this is a general problem with this model!

Reply
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Level 1
8 6 0 0
Message 6 of 44
1,222
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

I have exactly the same problems, the keyboard backlight failed only when I did a system restore, I had to uninstall keyboard drivers and the problem was fixed, however the other ones were not.

It would be nice to be HP fix this.

Reply
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Level 3
33 31 0 10
Message 7 of 44
1,215
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

The problem is based on a buggy BIOS where the power management is not properly implemented.

There is no fix yet and it only can be fixed by updating the BIOS power management.

S0 Standby is supported since F.17 but its making the laptop crash a lot.

S3 Standby still is not supported.

Fan is still shutting down with the screen.

The laptop keeps crashing without any reason.

Windows is reporting, that there is no communication with the embedded controller and the vendor has to be asked for a BIOS update.

I don't believe HP wants to fix anything, they also closed the original german thread

Reply
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Level 1
8 6 0 0
Message 8 of 44
1,204
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

I'm pretty sure they are closing all of the threads on the German site because everything is being moved to the English site and the German one is getting shut down.

Reply
0 Kudos
Highlighted
Level 3
33 31 0 10
Message 9 of 44
999
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

Here is the latest update:

 

[edit]

All Models are sharing the same BIOS and a Ryzen 3500U or 3700U CPU.

 

Flextronics (the real manufacturer) seems to have no interest to fix the faulty BIOS with the (how I call it) "fake standby" issue.

I've sent in my device twice with a detailed manual how to reproduce the problems twice, including a video of proof and it came back as "Tested OK" / "No problems found".

It takes only 5 minutes to reproduce the shutdown of the fan and 2 hours to make the device crash for sure in standby!

The BIOS of these devices is totally faulty!

 

Also the Windows Event Viewer sometimes is showing this message right before the device is crashing:

The embedded controller (EC) returned data when none was requested. The BIOS might be trying to access the EC without synchronizing with the operating system. This data will be ignored. No further action is necessary; however, you should check with your computer manufacturer for an upgraded BIOS.

 

I could reproduce the problems with other customers and with some 13-ar* and a 15-ds* model in stores.

Here is what I know for sure now. There are different scenarios with different intensity:

 

Screen Standby (deactivated or not yet activated system standby):

With a chance of 80-90%, this combination of device components are powering down at the same time when the screen turns off (screen standby):

- CPU fan

- keyboard backlight

- LED of the power button

- Important: The CPU is always 100% active and can heat up the device. A simple CPU-stresstest (CPU-Z) will heat up the uncooled device very fast while the CPU fan is turned off.

With an unpredictable chance these components don't turn back on when waking up the screen.

But the device could get much hotter when crashing while it is in the system standby.

 

System Standby (only S0, S3 isn't even supported)

The devices do crash nearly every time when the standby is active. But the intensity is different.

Rule: As longer the standby is active, as stronger the crash scenario could be.

A standby of few seconds or maybe only 5-10 minutes could work without any problems.

 

Here is what I've tested and other customers confirmed to me:

a) 30-60 minutes:

The lockscreen will barely show up, but mostly without the background. It takes seconds to minutes and a bluescreen will show up with an instant reboot.

b) 60-120 minutes:

The device will not wake up anymore or only with a little chance after many minutes. Now the device could start to heat up already.

c) 2h-4h +++ (or over-night):

The device could get so incredibly hot now, that you need pot holders to force-shutdown the device, else the overheating doesn't stop.

I've measured a record of 80°C in the area of the battery. Now it's winter and I'm not heating my room a lot, so the temperature stays up to 15°C less at the current 15°C room temperature while a crash occurs in the wintertime. But with 30°C air temperature on hot days this devices could explode when it is in standby!

The internal battery is specified for up to 60°C max by the way and risk of explosion of lithium batteries starts at 70°C.

 

Another customer with a 13-ar0205ng model reported an additional problem.

When he is shutting down his device completely (turning off completely, not entering standby to make it clear), the device pretends to be powered off.

He is putting it into his laptop bag and after a while he was noticing several times, that the device was untouchable hot.

He also was scared that the battery could explode because it was so incredible hot.

 

 

The devices are working stable and 100% perfect, as long as you never turn off the screen or enter any standby!

 

 

And here I could write the whole history of the last 4 months, but I make it short this time:

I'm sorry that I also tell you, that you don't have to expect help from HP or Flex(tronics) or any BIOS update that will fix the problems.

I've tried the following BIOS versions, 3 of them have been released since I've told HP and Flextronics, that the BIOS is faulty including the reasons and solutions: F.12, F.13, F.16, F.17 and the newest F.18 released in January and supposed to better support Windows 1909, but there is no difference.

Both, HP and Flextronics did know that all models are affected, I could prove, that they have the problems, but they just ignored it.

The HP Complaints Management offered me a brand new 13-ar0212ng fresh from the manufacturer after I've told them that all models have this problems and the BIOS needs to be fixed! Are you kidding me? Where's the competence?

In 4 months HP and Flextronics did show a lot of ignorance and incompetence to me.

I've spent lots of weeks addressing that problem without ANY success.

All I did get was always "We are so sorry that you have troubles with your product" and I was ignored many times.

 

Too bad, I was always buying HP laptops till today but it was the last time.

HP Support Agent
HP Support Agent
12,916 12,917 1,247 1,443
Message 10 of 44
937
Flag Post
HP Recommended

Overheating, WIFI crashing, Keyboard backlight failing - ENVY 13-ar* needs new BIOS + Drivers

Hi @schildzilla

 

Welcome to the HP Support Community. 

 

Please look for a private message from me requesting additional information. Keep in mind not to publicly post personal information (serial numbers and case details).

 

If you are unfamiliar with how the Community's private message capability works, you can learn about that here.

 

Thank you for visiting the HP Support Community.

 

Please click “Accept as Solution” if you feel my post solved your issue, it will help others find the solution.

Click the “Kudos, Thumbs Up" on the bottom right to say “Thanks” for helping!

 

Have a great day! 

Asmita
I am an HP Employee

Reply
0 Kudos
Be alert for scammers posting fake support phone numbers on the community. If you think you have received a fake HP Support message, please report it to us by clicking on "Flag Post".
† The opinions expressed above are the personal opinions of the authors, not of HP. By using this site, you accept the Terms of Use and Rules of Participation